This episode begins with a solemn reflection on Americans’ porn preferences (really, Wyoming?), after which we begin a discussion on food and diet, to which we return toward the end of the show. Christian shares his experiences at his recent “team building” meeting among his sales and marketing associates, all of which makes Jason sad. We take a call from a listener who chides Christian for his alleged misuse of the term “literally,” but much to Jason’s disgust his co-host explains why the caller was in fact wrong (all of this leads to a diatribe from Jason on poo-poo etiquette, we’ll just leave it at that). We break down Super Tuesday and insult a bunch of people in the process, and then spend some time searching through a Christian movie website’s catalogue of family-friendly films. We follow up on the Kesha controversy, and then address whether Hollywood is hypocritical in its selective outrage as displayed in movies like Spotlight. We finish up trying to understand why black people are just so much more criminal than everyone else.
Also, calling America the “greatest nation on earth” when you’ve never traveled is about the most meaningless compliment ever.
Links from this Episode:
Podcast #182: Body Dysmorphia and Movies
Podcast #187: Affirmative Action, Reparations, and Over-Correction
Podcast #104: Daddy Issues and Marriage Proposals
Podcast #237: Gillette Ads and Instagram Stars
Random thoughts:
• What? Pornhub is tracking our searches? Ah, man… where I am supposed to look for” midget pirate dominatrix” porn now?
• I said that out loud, didn’t I?
• Crap.
• I can empathize with you, Jason. I, too, don’t have an inner child as much as I have an inner 68 year-old codger. If I live to be 70, maybe I’ll feel young for the first time in my life.
• Team building exercises are distractions used to help you forget that you’re a resource that will be used and discarded when you are no longer useful to the organization.
• Alright, look, as much as we all hate it, “literally” has also come to mean ‘figuratively with an emphasis’. You can still yell, ‘Git off mah lawn’ about there, their, and they’re, though.
• Dude, it’s not like we’re dropping trou on the floor. We’re using a toilet specifically designed to be shit in when nature calls.
• But Cruz sort of came back on Saturday because he won the caucuses. He lost the states that actually held a vote because everyone seriously hates Ted Cruz.
• Seriously, just look at that smug bastard. He is like the personification of every 80’s comedy villain. The Pope would instinctively want to punch that face if they met.
• There are a few things behind the Trump phenomenon.
• Talk radio and blogs. Conservatives own talk radio. And they use it to paint a narrative of good, clean white Christians under assault by pampered, lazy minorities. They paint a narrative that the government is ineffectual and play into the End Times hysteria that Christians have, where everything is becoming more and more ungodly and everything is getting worse and Christians are constantly under assault because it’s the last days, etc.
• Point of fact, progressive media has become more aggressive in painting conservatives as evil too. This, of course, then plays into the talk radio narrative of Conservative values and Christianity under attack and they respond, and we have a positive feedback cycle.
• Conservatives really hate Barack Obama. I mean, really hate the man. He’s not a legitimate president to them. Despite the disastrous wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (or because of it) these people really hate the idea of diplomacy and equate talking and negotiation with weakness. This probably stems from the propaganda that says that ALL Muslims really want to kill us or force us to convert and ALL Muslims are incompatible with America.
• Wage stagnation and outsourcing. Democrats and Republicans have become more and more friendly with business and taking care of the concerns of businesses first. Argue economics all you want, but the long term effects of these policies has been to make the voice of the workers less powerful, lead to people’s jobs moving overseas, or lead to people working longer hours for less pay or in jobs in which they are overqualified. Maybe this wouldn’t be as much of a problem if we hadn’t been raised in a consumer culture, but maybe not. Regardless many people are feeling powerless, like the government doesn’t work for them, and like they have no future. Donald Trump convinces them to punch down at immigrants. Donald Trump reinforces white supremacist propaganda and gives a voice to those feelings of powerlessness. Donald Trump portrays himself as a powerful man who can make things happen and restore the American dream of the middle class where hard work will mean greater social mobility. That he’s unlikely to do anything of the sort doesn’t matter. He promises strength and greatness again.
• Bernie Sanders points at what I think the real problems are, but he’s not brash, out-spoken, and he values negotiation and diplomacy, and people in America have no idea what Socialism really is, but they know it’s EVIL!
• I also, honestly, don’t see Bernie getting anything done unless America en masse decides to vote out the House GOP.
• I don’t think it is education in general. There are a lot of educated conservatives out there. And it is possible to have an educated debate about policy. That’s not what we’re having in America though. Maybe it’s because educated conservatives are too busy to be really involved in the conversation, so they are drowned out by the voices of screeching Cletuses out there. Or maybe they’ve given up appealing to those people in any way other than fear and tribalism.
• Or maybe because the media has abandoned its role as the afflicter of the powerful. How Fox News treated Trump in the last debate with real-time fact checking and calling him on the carpet for his statements is how every news organization should treat every politician, potential politician, and business leader. They shouldn’t be allowed to use the networks to get away with lying to the American public, but 99.9999% of the time, they are.
• The things the GOP stands for are part of the Trump movement. Anti-immigration, disdain for minorities, ultra-hawkish, nativist. The party establishment is just angry because Trump isn’t using dog whistles, he’s using an air horn.
• And they will support Trump if he becomes the nominee. They’ve said as much.
• Trump may not do any of the things he has promised, but he is making racism and nativism more acceptable. He’s proto-fascist and he is bringing actual fascists out of the woodwork. That, in the long run, is going to be a problem that outlasts his campaign or a benign Trump presidency.
• To be fair, the extremist Muslims might very well like Trump a lot because his rhetoric and his plans would be a boon in convincing the rest of Islamic peoples that the United States is really against them as a whole, that we are waging a Crusade upon their lands, and that they should unite behind a violent flag and battle us.
• Again… EVERYBODY hates Ted Cruz. Puppies hate Ted Cruz, sweet little grandmas hate Ted Cruz. Newborn infants, when shown a picture of Ted Cruz have spontaneously spoken their first words as “Man, I fucking hate that guy.”
• I’d recommend the “God Awful Movie” podcast. They watch Christian movies and then spend about 90 minutes or so just ripping them to pieces. It’s pretty great and I would have suggested you guys do that if they hadn’t started already.
• Guidelines to make a Christian movie:
o No swearing. Baby Jesus’ ears melt if he hears you say a swear word.
o No sex. Even kissing is suspect, but might be allowed between married characters. Hugging maybe, but both parties must be in public and fully clothed with no exposed skin showing on either actor except their head.
o Ambition is bad.
o A family must always be in trouble. Dad is working too much or likes porn. Mom is too busy.
o Any problem in the character’s lives can be solved by more Jesus. Going to church more, praying a magic prayer; or resolved by Jesus Ex Machina.
o Any characters of color will be stereotypes.
o Plot, character, and any other element of the story will always take a backseat to ham fisted dialog about God.
o Any objections or problems someone might bring up about Christianity will be resolved by ending the scene early or saying, “You’ll need to figure that out.”
o Atheists secretly believe in God, but either on Team Satan or are just angry with Him.
o Violent death is okay if the people aren’t Christians.
• Meat is just really, really, really tasty, son.
• But yes, ethically, we should be aware of our own impact on the environment, and on other people. I have given up on eating shrimp or buying shrimp because I read about how the industry in Southeast Asia is dominated by slave labor and child labor.
• Here is a list of products and locations compiled by the government where slave or child labor has been documented: http://files.meetup.com/1337582/2009TVPRA%20Slave%20Products.pdf
• The Revenant? That’s the bear rape movie, right?
• What if we bred animals that were really, really depressed and would welcome death’s sweet embrace? Then we’d be heroes for turning them into food.
• Not just the environment, but us. Mass misuse of antibiotics is creating more and more strains of antibiotic resistant bacteria that will probably kill us all shortly.
• Yeah, and once you’ve been in jail, it’s a lot harder to find a good job.
• If you haven’t read this, it’s pretty good: http://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/15/straight-white-male-the-lowest-difficulty-setting-there-is/
Again… EVERYBODY hates Ted Cruz. Puppies hate Ted Cruz, sweet little grandmas hate Ted Cruz. Newborn infants, when shown a picture of Ted Cruz have spontaneously spoken their first words as “Man, I fucking hate that guy.”
Pretty sure Kenneth likes him!
What if we bred animals that were really, really depressed and would welcome death’s sweet embrace? Then we’d be heroes for turning them into food.
Ha ha! Brilliant!
“Screeching Cletuses.” Well, consider the search for my future band’s name over.
That’s what the food industry is doing if PETA would mind their own business.
Pedophilia, rape, touchdown celebrations. DXP = two racists and a shovel.
Ha ha. Good point!
Just FYI, Cam Newton is a pescatarian.
trusTED!!!!!
So I guess we will hear Kenneth’s voice mail next week?
HOLD ON! My point with the (completely true) statistics in the black community was not to say that they are “worse people”. My point was that liberal policies ” feel good” but do harm. I blame the downfall of the black community on liberal policies impact upon their culture. Think for a minute on the riots in Baltimore. Who were they rioting against? Their black president? The black secretary general? Their black mayor? The black city council? The majority black police force? Who were these people saying black lives don’t matter? Their anger is misdirected. Its not a shadowy mysterious racist entity holding them down. Its their own culture. Which has been shaped largely by liberal policy. Challenge: name ONE single ethnic group or culture which has gone from poverty to middle class through political action. I’ll save you some time. There are ZERO. The only systemic problem holding blacks down are (quasi racist) liberals who want to treat them like helpless children. Is america more racist today than it was in the 60s? If not, please explain the decline in the black community. *something* is getting in the way. What is it? I’m genuinely curious as to what the liberal answer is to this. I say the welfare state, affirmative action, and horrible atrocious government run public education. You say…… What?
Trump is winning big in every state that allows dems to vote in GOP primaries. Fox News wants me to believe he is winning “Reagan Democrats”…. But I just don’t believe that at all. I think he is winning ” Hillary is gonna win no matter what so let’s go screw over Republicans ” votes.
Its a conspiracy. I know. But the numbers dont lie. Trump is getting a substantial number of registered democrats. Thoughts?
My voicemail went too long!!! Lol I broke Jasons common sense voicemail rule. Oh well.
Cruz is hated by dems for the same reason Bernie is hated by republicans. He actually believes in what he is saying and is thus more dangerous.
That’s all I’ve got.
My voicemail went a little long. If they play it im sure it will get paused ten times for response before I can finish my long winded rambling point. Haha probably better it got skipped. I can give speeches to classrooms, hold sales conferences, and training seminars with hundreds of people watching….. But that fucking voicemail gets in my head every time.
“HOLD ON! My point with the (completely true) statistics in the black community was not to say that they are “worse people”. My point was that liberal policies ” feel good” but do harm.”
I thought the same thing when I heard it on the podcast, did they intentionally miss the point? It is a pretty common argument. I would also like to hear the liberal response.
It is illustrative of my major theme from last week that liberals have a need for moral superiority. “What’s this? You said something about blacks doing poorly? You must just think they are bad people” Comrade informs us in his comments that conservatism in part stands for “anti-immigration and disdain for minorities”. This uncharitable way of thinking is a pillar of their platform. Its carved into their culture like being an ass-hole just comes with being a Calvinist blogger. Non-negotiable triumphalism completely based on fiction.
Progressivism = elitism
If only we had more education we would understand…. Poor us.
LOL
Breaking News: Iran tests long range ballistic missiles, calls for Israel to be wiped out, and threatens to walk away from Iran deal. Hooray Obama! But good thing he is so highly liked by Muslims. Don’t wanna step on any toes…
You said something about blacks doing poorly? You must just think they are bad people.
That was the precise point of the meme we were discussing.
The point was not “blacks are innately bad people”. The point was that their time would be better spent reforming their own communities and not searching for a boogey man. That has to be read *just right* to be understood in the way you all described. And by *just right* what I mean is by a liberal who has a need for moral superiority.
For my part, it seems myopic at best (racist at worst) to say things like, “Blacks make up an undue percentage of the prison population and commit a disproportionate percentage of overall crimes, and they need to start policing themselves” without recognizing the institutional factors that are in play. And most of the time that is what I hear from the right, the implication being that they’re just more violent than us.
Now if I missed your point, Kenneth, I apologize. I haven’t re-listened, but perhaps I was just venting about an attitude that wasn’t exhibited by you.
Count me among guys like Maher and Harris when it comes to Islam. Political correctness be damned.
No need to apologize! There was a giant block of text going between myself and Chris. But for the record, the quote was in the context of listing factors that hurt the black community. Namely, liberal policies implemented since the 1960s. I categorically deny that “institutional racism” (never named, never specified, no examples ever given) is significantly hindering the black community. They are hindering themselves through culture. The culture must be addressed. The factors negatively impacting culture need to be addressed (affirmative action, welfare, government education). Black lives matter hasn’t even begun to meaningfully help African American communities. That’s not to say “too bad for them, they shouldn’t be so shitty” but it is a rejection of the liberal diagnosis and cure
If Iran violates the terms of its agreement, I expect the United States and the EU will react accordingly. Until then, we should continue to trust, but verify.
And if Iran is stupid enough to attack Israel (they are not), I expect they will face significant reprisals from Israel.
I wrote a rather nasty reply, but rather than indulge my anger, I’ll simply ask you, if you lost your job tomorrow and were out of work for 6… 12…18 months would you rather live in a state with a strong safety net or a weak safety net? If you were working two jobs and couldn’t afford to feed your family, would you rather there be a program like food stamps available or would you rather rely on the kindness of strangers to provide food for your family daily? If you are elderly and your retirement plan gets wiped out because of a market downturn, would you rather be able to draw a social security check or panhandle?
Yes because the trust and verify worked so well with North Korea. Doing the same thing but expecting different results is insane
And yet Republicans constantly choose the “bomb ’em back to the stone age” option, regardless of the consistently disastrous results.
I’ve already stated that the intentions of liberals are noble. They might even be sincere. But they do harm. Grab a “go-cam” and walk through Detroit so we can all see how these intentions play out. Or go to your local public housing setup and let me know what you see. We might also go to a large black community in whatever city you are from and take a peep at their government run public schools. How’s that working out? Rather than asking ivory tower questions or being nasty, why don’t you write a substantial response and explain why the black community has become so much worse even as america has become less racist?
God save us from those who think they know what’s best for everyone else. God save us from those that want to “do good” with other peoples money. Combine good intentions with bad means and you get….. Detroit. No thanks
I’ve already referenced how ghettos formed and were reinforced along largely racial and ethnic lines: redlining, housing codes, higher interest rates, destruction of successful black neighborhoods, segregation, or, you know, a systemic white supremacy that still lingers in certain sectors (police and banking) today where black people are seen as animals, enemies, risky, too stupid to know what is good for them, or any other phrase gentrified by conservative intellectuals.
Now, answer my questions. If, God forbid, something happened to you and you could not work or could not find a job or could not even find TWO jobs that would pay enough to feed, house, and provide medical care to your family, would you rather live in the conservative libertarian state you envision where the prescription for poverty is “you’re just not trying hard enough” or would you rather have a State safety net that you could fall back on?
Because that is not ‘an ivory tower’ question, it is a hypothetical question based on very real circumstances for some people. And it could happen to ANY of us.
The agreement with North Korea collapsed five years before the regime detonated its first nuclear test. Whether or not the deal Clinton made to get them to agree to non-proliferation would have held is an open question.
And during that time, instead of dealing with the issue, we were distracted in another part of the world fighting a senseless war.
What exactly do you think Iran would do if it had a nuclear missile anyway?
I would say the level of vitriol between Iran and Israel pales in comparison to the vitriol between Pakistan and India and somehow those two nuclear powers manage to coexist without turning Southeast Asia into the setting for Fallout 5.
Haha your answer is a non answer. Interest rates and ghetto formation. Brilliant. And let’s not forget the shadowy mysterious shapeshifting institutional racism. Its amazing that minorities still believe this bullshit. Again, just get that gocam footage and we will see how much good liberal ideas have actually accomplished.
I’ve never advocated libertarian (austrian) exonomics. There should be a security net of sorts. Perhaps a negative income tax. But that’s a far cry from the crap liberals have pushed on the poor citizens of Detroit and on black communities in general. Liberals have destroyed black communities nation wide and keep asking for more money and a redo and another redo and another redo and the tale of the tape keeps getting worse and worse every decade. Feel great. Do harm.
I’m sorry none of this was included in your history books (yet another reason why Black History month is important) but yes, there were a series of acts taken by private businesses and public agencies that actively and purposefully harmed black families. And yes, systemic discrimination still exists today in housing, in policing, in finance, and in business.
And you are, perhaps, 1% correct in that SOME of the administrations that presided over these agencies and polices of racial discrimination which gave into white supremacy were progressive.
The rest of your post is wholesale conservative propaganda.
Kenneth is from Texas, Chris. They don’t allow that stuff in their history books!
How Texas Teaches History:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/22/opinion/how-texas-teaches-history.html?_r=0
To be fair, IIRC, I’m pretty sure the section for black history in Calvary’s text books was “Slavery wasn’t great, but lots of black people came to Jesus, so Yay!”
Yes, because when Iraq invaded Iran, set up rape camps, and murdered every civilian in sight, what we should have done was slap on some sanctions! When Iran threatens to make a nuke and blow Israel off the map we should invite them over for tea. If only we could have an oragomy paper folding contest with ISIS everyone would all get along. If the leader of N Korea would only consider an hour of meditation with Obama by a cool bubbling brook perhaps his dreams of nuking a US city would evaporate. Or maybe we should just fight evil and not be pussys 😉
So on the whole you would argue that public housing has been a wonderful boon for the black community. Their government run schools have been uber helpful in getting them out of poverty. Affirmative action hasn’t set them up to fail in jobs/schools they aren’t qualified for. The nanny state has no role to play in encouraging a 71% single mother rate. You think Detroit is a liberal paradise. And blacks have been driven to murder, broken families, drugs, and dropouts due to interest rates and private mortgage companies. Oh yeah, and institutional racism that totally exists somewhere even though you have no specifics.
D-E-L-U-S-I-O-N-A-L
Watch how fast conservatives could help black people. Give them school vouchers to attend any school they want as a family. Stop taxing them with state dollars so we can send middle class white kids to college. End all welfare programs across the board and instead give each and every person under the poverty line the 9k dollars per person per year we are currently spending. Family of five, that’s 45k per year. Think you could feed a family on that working two jobs? Just making sure… But liberals don’t want money going straight to the poor. Liberals don’t want kids trapped in shit government schools to have the freedom to choose. Liberals are elites. They are the special. They know better than those poor minorities where the money should go. If they could only have more tax dollars and one more try they are sure they could turn it all around. Except they never do. The bigger the government the smaller the citizen. Black people are feeling pretty small right now. And it has nothing to do with conservatism and everything to do with feel good liberalism
All of that is bullshit. 50 years of digression due to a handful of mortgage companies, businesses, and an interest rate? Please!
http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/vouchers-dont-do-much-for-students-097909
I would argue that having a house is better than not having a house. I would argue that it’s better to eat, than not eat. Would you argue otherwise?
I would argue that we can do more to fund and improve public schools in urban districts to reduce class sizes, teach vocational skills, teach more arts and sciences.
I would argue that I’d rather have a government jobs program that pays a living wage so people who can work can work for a living instead of collecting a check.
I would argue for more safe public day care and public preschools so working families have a safe place to put their kids.
I would argue that drugs should be treated like a medical problem and not like criminal one that puts young black men in jail at higher rates than white kids and therefore reduces their chances for a good and stable job later in life.
I would argue we should do more as a society to strength unions so workers have a stronger voice. And we should do more to fight wage stagnation through tax policies.
Sure, I must think Detroit is a liberal paradise and you must think Kansas and Louisiana are conservative paradises. How are those states doing these days, huh?
I would argue that having a house is better than not having a house. I would argue that it’s better to eat, than not eat. Would you argue otherwise?
Having a house is better than not having a house? No kidding! Eating versus not eating…. Hmmmm…. How much time do I have to think about this? Its a classic liberal talking point to pretend as if we are choosing between EITHER helping these poor helpless people OR leaving them to die in the streets. As if the only way to help is to build crappy ghettos and place kids in shit schools. No. It’s better to have a house, but the liberal, freedom restricting, inefficient, damage causing, means liberals put forward are to be rejected. Again, we could cut each and every welfare program offered exclusively to the poor and simply write them a check for 9k dollars per person per year. As bizaar as that is it would be better than what the left has done to these unfortunate communities.
I would argue that we can do more to fund and improve public schools in urban districts to reduce class sizes, teach vocational skills, teach more arts and sciences.
Yes, of course. With just more money and one more try we pinky promise this time we will get it right. Never mind the 40 years of failure.
I would argue that I’d rather have a government jobs program that pays a living wage so people who can work can work for a living instead of collecting a check.
I would rather be able to get a real job. I’m certain everyone else would too.
I would argue for more safe public day care and public preschools so working families have a safe place to put their kids.
Yeah, public funded daycare sucks. I would never put my kids in those dumps. And if the government continued to run them like they run public schools… No thanks.
I would argue that drugs should be treated like a medical problem and not like criminal one that puts young black men in jail at higher rates than white kids and therefore reduces their chances for a good and stable job later in life.
Or you could support policies that actually work and get those people out of drug riddled gang infested neighborhoods that attract police activity.
I would argue we should do more as a society to strength unions so workers have a stronger voice. And we should do more to fight wage stagnation through tax policies.
No unions in Texas and we are doing great.
Sure, I must think Detroit is a liberal paradise and you must think Kansas and Louisiana are conservative paradises. How are those states doing these days, huh?
I would rather live in Louisiana than Detroit! I would rather be in a trailer park than a government funded project. And here is a little secret….. That poor person in Louisiana and Kansas? The waiter barely making 50 per year…… Probably has a nice house than the engineer living in New York , Chicago, or Baltimore. Wages and education may be low….. But damn Yankee houses suck. American dream is alive down south. Liberals get a one bedroom condo infested with rats for 300k lol
You misunderstand me. I don’t mean that we should have a lottery and give some special kids the ability to choose their school. We should not subsidize ANY schools and only subsidize the kids. Let the crap schools go out of business. Let competition drive excellence.
Alright, well, that was fun. I’m going to go drink alcohol and bang my head against the wall. I feel it would be a more productive use of my time than arguing the same points over and over and over and over ad nauseum.
Have a good night. Enjoy living in the capital of minimum wage jobs.
I will. And I’ll also sleep in my king sized bed and massive 2 story house that flipping burgers affords me 🙂
I’m with Kenneth, to an extent. I DO think that there is some institutional racism, we can argue how significant it is. Regardless, I still haven’t heard anyone really address his main point. The statistics for the black community he identified show that they are worse off over the last 60 or so years, not better. If you blame simply institutional racism, that would mean that it wasn’t as bad in the first half of the 20th century?! That seems ridiculous on its face. So for a party that talks so much about favoring science, look at the evidence of your policies.
I’m not trying to be a shell for one side over the other, neither has it completely right. For example, I agree with Chris when he said: “I would argue that drugs should be treated like a medical problem and not like criminal one that puts young black men in jail at higher rates than white kids and therefore reduces their chances for a good and stable job later in life.”
Putting a large number of fathers for a community in jail for petty crimes, then blaming the community for broken families seems shitty.
However, that isn’t the only problem. You also have welfare programs that advantage singleness over marriage, thus incentivizing the wrong things. A recent example of this is my wife’s foster father. He doesn’t have a high paying job, but after the Affordable Care Act he found himself, for the first time in his life, unable to afford health insurance. When talking to a ACA rep about his situation, he was told that he would qualify for the subsidization he now needs if he got a divorce. Awesome. I’m not saying that everything about the ACA is bad, but it isn’t rosy.
At least until the unregulated fertilizer plant blows up and takes out the town.
Poverty is often a negative feedback loop, Lane. And society doesn’t do enough to help.
Providing more funding for schools would be a start. Creating high-quality public preschools in urban areas would be as well. Supporting people by making the laws work for them and their families. High quality early education has been shown to dramatically improve a person’s chances of escaping poverty.
But we don’t have the political will for that. It’s easier to blame the individuals and say they are moral failures or say that if we only privatized all of society things would be wonderful because Free Market magic.
We don’t have the political will to improve the system. We have an entire party dedicated to destroying it.
“Providing more funding for schools would be a start.”
Has been done. Over and over again. Maybe the schools themselves are fundamentally flawed. Lets try different types of schools and educational approaches – which can be done with charters and vouchers.
“It’s easier to blame the individuals and say they are moral failures or say that if we only privatized all of society things would be wonderful because Free Market magic.
But the individuals on some level ARE moral failures, but so is society; both are to blame. I could just as easily say “that if we only nationalized all of society things would be wonderful because of Government magic.” The individual must be kept in the picture, but the individual isn’t the whole picture.
Any system set up, must encourage and incentivize right action on the part of the individual. Which is typically lacking from most liberal legislative approaches. The negative feedback loops to poverty are strengthened if we incentivize the wrong things. Yes have a safety net, but it can’t be a bed.
I’ve seen schools in the suburbs and I’ve seen schools in the inner cities. No. No, it has not been tried. There is a VAST difference between funding, facilities, and the quality of the faculty.
Shit, even living in a nice white middle class suburb, my kids’ school is CONSTANTLY doing fundraisers and their teachers are asking us to donate school supplies. Hell, we’ve donated to charities that give poorer kids new backpacks with schools supplies in them, so don’t tell me we’ve tried actually prioritizing education and provided equality of opportunity to these communities.
All your experience points to is that they will always ask for more money. There is no sufficient amount of money.
What do you think is more important to the success of a student, and thus the school: money received by the school, or parental involvement. Oh yes, both are needed, but without the 2nd, there is no amount of money that will be sufficient.
BTW, my daughter is blowing away her public school friends without taking a single dime of public school funding.
I’ll take my chances!
Hey Jason and Christian, I’m curious. What are your stances on nuclear power? If people were really serious about doing something about global warming, they should be all for nuclear power. It is a mature technology that can supply huge amounts of power continuously (providing base load power unlike solar and wind), they produce virtually no CO2, and takes up comparatively very little land (see picture). The US only gets about 20% of its power from nuclear, the bulk of the rest is from coal. France, for comparison, gets about 77% of their power from nuclear. Think of all the CO2 that could be prevented from entering the atmosphere if only we wisely switched from coal to nuclear.
The fact that you fail to recognize the systemic (and GOP-driven) factors that make “parental involvement” more challenging for poor inner-city people just reinforces the point we have been making. It’s like when people on the Right say that poor people should get jobs like they have and everything would be fine.
No. I’m saying that any governmental plan that is put forward to improve education (and lift families out of poverty) needs to encourage parental involvement. The plan can’t ignore the role of the families. Simply throwing money at the problem doesn’t work. It is a “both/and” not an “either/or” is what I’m saying.
Yes, I appreciate the both/and here. But I am saying that there are institutional factors that make parental involvement disproportionately difficult for poor people, factors that the Right is largely responsible for. So it can be disingenuous to say that parents should be more involved while also fighting to keep wages low and family-leave difficult.
What are these factors? Can you list a few?
“But I am saying that there are institutional factors that make parental involvement disproportionately difficult for poor people, factors that the Right is largely responsible for”
And Kenneth’s point is that the Right isn’t totally responsible, well he would probably say the Left is totally responsible. The programs the Left has instituted – very well intended no doubt – has contributed significantly to the problem.
I have decided to take a page out of Christian’s book and not to declare for either side.
Sure. When certain segments of the population are disproportionately imprisoned for non-violent “crimes,” and then are forever labeled a criminal, it makes it hard to get a decent job. If you do, it’s hard to put food on the table when you make $9/hr and your governor just outlawed ever raising the minimum wage. So you have to get a couple jobs (if you’re lucky), but since you can’t unionize you’re basically at the mercy of your boss (so good luck getting time off to be that active and involved parent). Meanwhile, because of the war on drugs your kid is sagely wondering whether it’s even worth it to go to school instead of dealing on a corner since drugs are so lucrative, especially since the school is a shithole because the governor cut educational funding while giving massive tax cuts to his rich friends. And if you’re a woman, good luck getting any decent maternity leave once you’ve had your baby.
This is just stream of consciousness, obviously. I am just trying to point out that it’s easy for us white guys to talk about how “those people” need to get their act together. I grew up in a nice SoCal suburb with in intact family and plenty of food and clothing, and went to schools where us white kids didn’t have to worry about crime and violence every day.
Not everyone has it this good, is what I am saying. It would seem like the first step toward empathy and compassion is recognizing this and trying to see the world through others’ eyes.
Not TOTALLY responsible. But largely responsible. I haven’t heard one single piece of conservative legislation even mentioned thus far. There is no intellectually honest way to claim that public housing hasn’t hurt blacks. Same with government funded public schools. BTW Chris claims throwing more money into the system has never been tried before!!! I almost fell out of my chair. Looks like he is missing a few pages in his history books too lol
I had a conversation with one of my best friends yesterday. He happens to be head of treasury for the NAACP. I asked him why he would oppose cutting all the crap programs and simply writing everyone below the poverty line a check for 9k per person per year. His response: because they would all blow the money. This is the elitism of liberals. They know better than you what you need. And the citizens get smaller and smaller and smaller
Jason,
It is absolutely untrue that inner city education is poor due to lack of funding. They have plenty of funding, but are poorly managed. If you opened up a school and got paid roughly 6k-15k dollars per student per year do you think you could be successful? Of course! Many charter and public schools outperform public schools with FAR less funding. The problem is that poorly managed schools never have to suffer for waste and subpar performance. They simply ask for more and more and more money and keep the same failed systems. Which is why subsidizing the parents rather than the brick building is superior. The left can’t keep calling a mulligan and asking for more cash. At what point do you just say “well, that system sucks, let’s try something new”.
Further, you need to understand that making laws against drugs is largely a state by state issue. Why are the blacks in liberal california , New York, and Illinois still being thrown in jail? This is not ” conservative driven” legislation. This is everyone’s legislation. Bill Clinton was one of the MOST strict in this area.
At some point you have to own the track record. Blacks have been sold out for the democratic party for nearly 100 years. Their counties, cities, states, and presidents, have handed down policy after policy since the 1960s aimed at helping. But things have gotten worse. Sincerity and good intentions are over rated virtues. Everyone wants yo help them out of the slums. But beyond the emotionalism I don’t see that liberal policies have done good for these people.
I think the criminalization problem is significant and needs to be addressed. But from the other side I think school choice through such things as vouchers would be very empowering to families struggling with terrible schools.
You’re arguing from ignorance.
You are imagining some idyllic school that you could manage like a business, but education is not a business, it is a right.
So let’s throw into your perfect school some homeless students. They live in cars or on the streets. Let’s throw in some migrant students that don’t speak the language that have come over alone from Mexico or Central America.
Let’s throw in some kids who didn’t get to go to preschool and whose mom and dad didn’t teach them to read because they were working.
Let’s throw in some special needs kids. Some emotionally disturbed kids.
Let’s throw in some hungry children who didn’t eat last night.
Let’s make your funding source rely heavily on property taxes, so your funding varies depending upon the economy. Let’s also cut your budget money you would receive from the state because of a recession, a state deficit or because your state decided to give the wealthy a tax cut.
Let’s get rid of some more of that funding because your state decided to hand out vouchers and some students have been sent off to religious schools.
And let’s mandate that you meet a threshold on a standardized test that some of your students might not even read the language of.
I wonder how well your idyllic school would perform.
I’m agreeing with you that education is a right. That’s why I’m against crappy government schools depriving black kids and minorities of a good one. Don’t kid yourself, education IS a business, and everyone involved has their hand in the cookie jar. I’m not imagining an idyllic school. I’m thinking of specific schools whom have the same issues and outperform public schools with far less money. The beurocracy soaks up huge chunks of our money before it even gets to the schools. School choice has only a limited (but still substantial) impact currently because poorly run schools don’t have to pay for their poor management decisions. They get funded and stay open no matter how terrible they do. But if schools had to compete for parents vouchers competition and the market would drive excellence. There would be schools just for special children. Schools for immigrants. Schools for religious. Schools focused on science. Schools heavy into liberal arts. Schools for athletes etc. There would be schools for every appetite and desire. The parents would take a more active role because they CHOSE the school. Kids would graduate MIT and instead of opening a business in silicon valley, they would use their innovation to create amazing education for the next geberation. Is this all a pipe dream? Not at all. Its exactly what competition and the free market does and has done throughout history. Every kid has a voucher, and every kid has a choice. The money follows the child and stops feeding government waste and terrible schools.
Let’s be clear. Politicians don’t oppose this system because they think Harlem does so great with education. They oppose it because special interests, unions, and beurocrats getting paid by the department of education tell them to do so. There is also a fear from liberals that people might make the wrong decision. Remember, the liberal elites always know better than the individual citizen. If only the citizen was more educated they would agree that focusing all the poor broken crime infested communities into public projects and then sending them to bad schools is truly what’s best. There is nothing that could quicker help minorities than a good education. That’s exactly what they don’t have thanks to big government
“Let’s get rid of some more of that funding because your state decided to hand out vouchers and some students have been sent off to religious schools.”
I like how threw that one in there. I think ALL of the funding should go into vouchers. That should be the basis of the entire system.
As for the religious aspect. Why do you care, if they are meeting general education standards. Send your kids to the best atheist school you want. I don’t care as long as the general education is great.
“Education … it is a right.”
Yes. Humans have a right to be educated. Parents have a right to be in control of their child’s education. It is a part of the general responsibility of the parent to raise their child. That’s why vouchers are so awesome. They empower the family. It is a way for society to support the family.
” education is not a business”
That is just silly. Of course it is a business. It employs people and has customers. And if the customers had more freedom to choose different businesses that suited their needs, they would provide a better product, and customers would be happier.
That truly is a nice fantasy, still completely disconnected from the realities and trials of poor children, but it’s a nice fantasy nonetheless. I still prefer Star Trek.
And I remain cynical enough of human nature to know that what would happen with ‘school choice’ is that 10,000 schools would open overnight that would consist of an unqualified ‘teacher’ sitting as proctor in a class full of students engaged in ‘self-learning’ while the money would mysteriously make its way into the pockets of the entrepreneur that started the ‘school’ and when that school had to close its doors, it would declare bankruptcy, reorganize under a different name and reopen to start the fleecing all over again.
Exactly! If there is demand backed with funding, there will be someone trying to provide the product.
Right just like every other business that you patronage.
That’s what public schools are essentially in some places now.
My problem with religious schools is that my education in Science (particularly biology and astronomy) was very lacking, and my education in history was presented from an “America, Fuck Yeah!” perspective, and everything was taught from a “If it contradicts the bible, we must ignore it or cram an apologetics lesson in.”
It also sheltered me from the world and from different points of view.
And, as with Kenneth, you’re view of the free market as a panacea is a lovely fiction, but one that ignores or glosses over greed, fraud, predation, and the human misery that the losers of the capitalist game endure.
The government funded school program is PART of the trials and reality of poor children. They are at no disadvantage by giving them the choice to reject a gang infested inner city school. I’m not imagining a perfect pancea of competition out of a fantasy novel. No system is perfect. The open market has a dark side. I’m sure there will be instances of fraud and crap schools. Just as we can buy a lemon car. But the fact remains that throughout history to this very day competition in a free market unleashes productivity and ingenuity like nothing else. It brings tomorrows laggards above today’s mean. The question isn’t “which will create a utopia”. The question is which system gives citizens the most freedom and will produce the best product. Competition.
“My problem with religious schools…”
My problem with secular schools is because they don’t teach Jesus and Catholicism adequately.
“And, as with Kenneth, you’re view of the free market as a panacea is a lovely fiction, but one that ignores or glosses over greed, fraud, predation, and the human misery that the losers of the capitalist game endure.”
Not true. Everything isn’t an all or nothing thing. You are blind if you don’t see capitalism and free markets providing great benefits. But I’m not blind to human nature, in part due to my religious education =). There should always be regulations and check and balances.
My problem with public schools is they don’t teach catholicism adequately!!!! I laughed out loud
The criminalization issue. Joe Biden in 1992:
“Let me define the liberal wing of the Democratic Party. The liberal wing of the Democratic Party is now for 60 new death penalties…has 70 enhanced penalties…is for 100,000 cops…is for 125,000 new State prison cells.”
Clinton’s attorney general Janet Reno stated in her confirmation hearing in 1993 “that she ‘regularly’ asked for the death penalty as Dade County state attorney, and she pledged to help Congress craft new death penalty procedures to cut the protracted appeals that make a ‘mockery of the justice system.’”
Bill Clinton came up with the three strike rule. It is a total fiction that conservative legislation is solely responsible for black incarceration. If you want to say that TODAY there are sole liberals that want these laws reduced, then, fine. There are libertarians that want the same. But the blame here is on both left and right. So I don’t see this as a case for liberals helping blacks in the slightest. And what’s more, many blacks are incarcerated for serious, actual crimes and not just ” smoking weed “
For your personal benefit:
Whites were accepted for mortgage loans at double the rate of blacks.
Chinese were accepted for mortgage loans at double the rate of whites.
Black owned banks turned down the same ratio of blacks for mortgage loans as white owned banks.
Kind of hard to square with systemic racism….. But they probably left that info out of your history books 🙂
They shouldn’t be teaching Catholicism at all, unless they’re teaching it objectively along with all the other religions.
All religions aren’t created equal, and so shouldn’t be treated as such. You guys said something similar about cultures during the Cam discussion.
Regardless, I think Catholicism is objectively true, and all truth is God’s truth, and thus a Catholic truth. When any school, including secular schools, teach truth, they are teaching Catholicism. My problem is that they aren’t teaching enough truth (Catholicism). Is all of Catholicism at the center of the Venn diagram of what most segments of society believe? No, but so what. My wife and I get to decide what we teach our children.