Podcast #89: Anarchy and Theism

138 March 20, 2016 by

89In this episode the DXPs are joined by their friend Johnny Terranova, who admits that Jason’s case against the truth of the moon landing is the most convincing one ever put forward. We then discuss our rejection of the idea that the Bible must be the believer’s sole authority as well as where that rejection has led us, after which we delve a little more into issues surrounding theism and Christianity. Johnny then shares some of his anarchist ideas about government surveillance (as if the NSA would ever do such a thing!), and we take a voice mail about women breastfeeding their babydaddies. We talk a bit about Trump, because how can we not, and then return to the issue of the role of probability in whether one believes in God or not (and thankfully, Christian’s confusion over which god is the right one to pick is cleared up by a caller who explains why Jason’s is the best God ever). We introduce a new segment called “Late for Lent” in which one of us makes a radical change to our lives and describes its effects (our first round involves Christian’s sleeping patterns). Our biebers focus on Daily Savings Time and “lame ducks,” as well as force us to face the chilling question of whether our biebers will ever annoy us more than their namesake does.

Also, Jason and Johnny are 84% convinced that 99% of Christian’s statistics are just made up.

138 Comments (click here to leave a comment)

  1. Hey Christian,

    I don’t have anything to add to your updated response. You answered my question in full 🙂

    The only thing of interest that I might suggest is that you shouldnt hope for what you think you hope for. Eternity is a long time to live. The continuation of what we already have, FOREVER, would eventually become a nightmare. Living forever without God wouldn’t be desirable. Its difficult sometimes to even see how living forever WITH God would be desirable. Checkout this course when you have some spare time.

    http://oyc.yale.edu/philosophy/phil-176

    Shelly Kagan is my favorite atheist philosopher. He teaches at Yale and his course on death is free to the public. Its really awesome and all from a nonbelievers perspective. The rationality of suicide, the human soul, moral decisions, how to live a good life, etc. Are all covered. You said you think about death often, so I thought you might take advantage of the course. I can’t recommend it enough.

  2. Thanks, Kenneth. Although I feel like I could live a long time in my current context being mostly happy, I agree with you that eternity in the same situation wouldn’t be desirable. Obviously, we die, so something changes though.

    I will check out Shelly Kagan. Looks super interesting. Thanks for the link!

  3. Just as a side note, I think about living longer and how that would affect my emotions. I can tend to be very nostalgic, and sometimes almost to the point of short spurts of debilitation. If I lived to be 1,000, I can’t imagine the weight of nostalgia I would have for people, places, decades, centuries, etc. Sometimes I think it would be cool to live to be one thousand, and sometimes I think it would wreck me, especially since nostalgia seems to get stronger as time goes on as there’s more to be nostalgic about.

    Imagine having a child for 500 years, and then the child dies. Not only is the weight of grief so much greater because the child has been a part of your life for so long, but you may have 470 years left of your life to think about it! I can imagine and eventual complete psychological collapse under that scenario.

  4. He is the only guy I’ve heard who gave William Lane Craig a real thumping on morality without God. The videos don’t really build upon one another and can be taken individually. Not every day you can take a semester at Yale for free!

  5. although I feel like I could live a long time in my current context being mostly happy, I agree with you that eternity in the same situation wouldn’t be desirable.

    Let’s say we all lived 3 billion years. Gauruntee. No death before that period expires. That would be absolutely gruesome. Now, consider what that number looks like in view of eternity. When we speak of infinites, all the numbers we know are actually the smallest numbers that exist. Just on and on and on and on the show goes. Forever is a long time man. It couldn’t just be that “something” changes when we die. It would have to be just the right kind of something. I have a hard time finding any hope for that arising via nature alone. If we hope to continue on, it must be a hope based in God. And by God, I mean the classical christian conception of God and no other. Virgins in paradise will get old within 100 years. That would be my question for next week.

    What exactly are you hoping for? Good question for both Jason and Christian.

    PS,

    It just occurred to me that God need only leave us alone for eternity for hell to be aweful. No torture chamber. No fire roasting. Just a simple “goodbye I’ll leave you alone now” would be all it would take for weeping and gnashing of teeth. Torture by eternal existence without God. Eons and eons of you and everyone else just as they are. With nothing but time..

  7. That’s why the elves in every good fantasy novel (which always includes a map on the first few pages) grieve for warriors killed in battle. Apparently death hits immortals hard.

  9. • “I look forward to that…” Phppt… Fuck you, Hitler.

    • You’re welcome.

    • We used to be able to do big things like put a man on the moon because we dreamed big, we had the political will to do amazing things as a country, and 2/3rds of the political process had yet to buy into the notion that the purpose of government is to enrich corporations and fuck the poor and middle class.

    • And I heard from this one pastor who heard it from another pastor who heard it from his pastor that this one time at NASA that they totally found a missing day in the Earth’s rotations and no one could explain it until someone read the story of Joshua asking God to stop the sun. Seems legit.

    • Whiskey: It tastes like burning.

    • I don’t see a basis for Papal Authority, or I can see it, but I don’t agree with it. If there appeared to be any leading authority within the church, it appeared to be James, not Peter.

    • If Catholicism could give me Force Lightning and a lightsaber, I’d totally be on board.

    • I would describe myself as an agnostic Christian. I hope for the resurrection of the dead and life in peace, harmony, and communion forever, but I recognize that there are problems with Christianity and theism.

    • I don’t carry cash anymore. It’s inconvenient to have to go to an ATM every time I want to make a purchase.

    • I should probably use cash. I’d spend less.

    • I just started following the Savings challenge. It goes for a year, and each week, you deposit the dollar amount equal to the week number into your savings account. So $1 for week 1, $2 for week 2, all the way up to $52 for the last week. You end up with just over $1200 at the end of the year.

    • Social media would be my downfall, if the rare possibility of America becoming an evil dictatorship actually happened.

    • I’m gonna buy a shack in the woods with no power or plumbin’.

    • Anarchy would only last as long as it took for one person or company to own most of a community’s property or wealth or to become the employer of most of a community. Or if they wanted to get really nasty, to hire mercenaries to coerce the local population into following their dictates.

    • “Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is never try.”

    • Raw milk isn’t better. Unless you’re looking for more E.Coli in your cereal.

    • Well, Hillary did personally kill Vince Foster and those four Americans in BENGHAZI! And, from Bible College, we learned that the Clintons were totally going to put us all in FEMA camps and make us worship Satan, but on the other hand, you know… Trump… so I just can’t decide.

    • Yes, I can. I’ll happily vote for the FEMA camps.

    • Trump is tapping into the anger over how the American middle and lower classes have gotten fucked over by the political establishment and corporations: outsourcing, trade deals that hurt the American worker, wage stagnation, chronic or prolonged depression and joblessness in communities. Unfortunately, he’s directing a lot of that anger towards foreigners, minorities, and immigrants rather than the political establishment and America’s system of rigged capitalism.

    • Being a straight white Christian male living in America. I’d highly recommend it.

    • Dear Penthouse, I can’t believe it happened to me, I was on a train…

    • I used to work a tech support line for aerospace engineers. Before I board a plane, I take a Xanax or at least 2 shots.

    • I hope for a place where all men are equal. Where there is no want. Where there is no sickness. Where there are no tears. Where there is no heartbreak. Where there is no war, no violence, no hatred, no racism. Where there is forgiveness, reconciliation, and restoration of broken relationships and broken souls. Where the oppressed find deliverance. Where the victims of injustice find justice. And while I think it is our responsibility to try to move Earth towards becoming that place, I hope for its perfect fulfillment. Is it probable? Eh… probably not, but it’s such a powerful vision to me that I keep hoping it is true.

    • “God is willing to knock you down, if that is what it takes to make you look up…” Yes, Christians, your relationship with God is the same type of relationship that Ike Turner had with Tina or Mike Tyson had with Robin Givens. The type of relationship that features on an episode of Cops with God in a wifebeater and boxers explaining to the officer that the bitch wouldn’t stop looking at porn or thinking about other people so he had to teach them a lesson, also, maybe they should go get God a sandwich once in a while.

    Perhaps God needs a restraining order taken out against him? Do not come within 500 yards of a church’. Or Anger Management classes? Perhaps instead of destroying the world to make a point, He could channel that rage into something more constructive, like curing cancer or stopping child rapists. That would get a lot of people to love him and admire him and remove the problem of evil entirely from atheist arguments.

    • Eh, I don’t really want 72 virgins when I get to heaven. It’ll just be awkward and weird for like the first 1,000 years or so.

    • Muslim hell will also be a place where you live with 72 women, but it will only have one bathroom. Thank you, I’ll be here all week. Tip your waitstaff.

    • It’s the daylight. If it’s daylight and I wake up at 5:30, I’m perfectly good. If I wake up at 5:30, only it used to be 4:30, and it’s still dark outside, then I’m tired.

    • Unless your name is Marty or Doc, stop trying to control time, you bloody wankers.

    • If your name is Marty or Doc, could you go back to 1991 and tell younger me to go to a real college and get a real degree? Also to invest heavily in Dot Com stocks and sell it all off prior to the year 2000? I’d appreciate it.

    • I’m happy that right now my kids are interested in Disney movies and Star Wars… which I guess is also a Disney movie now. It’s a small world after all because we own it all.

    • We’re getting old. I’m sure we can find something else about popular culture that annoys us.

    • My personal hope, as someone who enjoys a good trolling, is that Hilary wins the presidency, the Democrats retake the Senate, and she immediately nominates Barack Obama to fill Scalia’s seat. I would imagine there would be many rage induced strokes in wingnuts across America.

  11. Watching your child be born, having hopes and dreams for them, watching them live their life, and then dying (not tragically young), seems potentially incredibly sad to me. You have just watched the entire arc of a normal person, seeing the hopes and dreams fade and ultimately go unfulfilled, all hope for the future come to an end. Sobering.

  12. “I don’t see a basis for Papal Authority, or I can see it, but I don’t agree with it. If there appeared to be any leading authority within the church, it appeared to be James, not Peter.“

    I hear Protestants say this all the time, but it’s like they don’t read the Bible. The primacy of Peter is obvious, even if you don’t believe all the stuff about the papacy that Catholicism teaches. For example, not only is there the keys being given to Peter: Peter is mentioned more than all the other apostles combined, his name is always first on lists of apostles, Jesus prays specifically for Peter’s Faith, Jesus tells Peter to shepherd and feed His sheep, Jesus tells Peter to strengthen his brothers, Peter is the one who vouches for Paul’s teaching, and so on. Every time you turn around it is “Peter! Peter! Peter!” (read in Jan’s voice form the Brady Bunch)

    Here is 50 NT references that point to the primacy of Peter: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/davearmstrong/2015/10/50-nt-proofs-for-petrine-primacy-the-papacy.html

  13. At best, I think one can argue that Peter was the first among equals and was given the honor of being the first to proclaim the gospel to the Jews and the Gentiles.

    Matthew 18:18 extends the binding and loosing to all of the disciples.

    James, brother of Jesus, is the apostle who closes the church council and pronounces judgment. Acts 11 shows Peter called to account by the church for breaking Jewish norms and visiting a Gentile. Likewise, Paul rebukes Peter for hypocrisy over his attempts to impress or placate Jewish Christians sent by James.

    There is no scriptural case for apostolic succession, though there is a tradition that developed in the church that applied in general to bishops and in the Roman church to the Roman bishop as the supreme authority.

    Ultimately, however, this question isn’t as clear as you make it to be because it was one of the factors that resulted in the first official division within the church, and led to latter divisions later in history.

  14. Dear Penthouse, I can’t believe it happened to me, I was on a train…

    Ha ha! Took me a minute. I think that was Forum. (Which was, I believe, owned by Penthouse.) Or at least that’s what someone told me.

  16. If a parent has two children and one is either less intelligent, more hard headed, more rambunctious, more rebellious, or less understanding, etc. than the other, which child’s name do you think the parent is going to use more? Seems like the fact that Peter gets mentioned more than anyone else is a really, really bad argument for him having the primacy.

  17. He’d be great. He’s a constitutional scholar who was President (one of our best presidents I’d argue) for 8 years. However, I want to see him chilling out enjoying himself. I want to see his hair turn black again. Being President would mostly suck I think.

    People think Elizabeth Warren would be a good SCOTUS nominee, but I don’t know much about her background and would rather see her be President soon. 🙂

  19. “There is no scriptural case for apostolic succession”

    You mean except for that part at the beginning of Acts where Peter opens a meeting about who they should replace Judas with (they choice St. Matthias). And all that stuff about laying on hands and passing on leadership roles in Timothy and Titus.

    “Ultimately, however, this question isn’t as clear as you make it to be because it was one of the factors that resulted in the first official division within the church, and led to latter divisions later in history.”

    Every dispute settled by Church council or Pope, has lead to a losing side and division on some level. Divisions prove nothing other than that people don’t like to be told they are wrong.

  20. Divisions tell me that we’re all still trying to figure it out. But then, I don’t believe that one set of guys somehow managed to get it right and have never made a mistake in their doctrines in the last 2,000 years. 🙂

  24. Sure, that’s possible. You just can’t use the fact that he’s mentioned more than anyone else prove that that’s what happened. I believe that would be a logical fallacy.

  26. Yeah, as a Protestant I became convinced of the primacy of Peter way before I thought it meant anything.

  28. I reject your logic. If one of the Apostles is mentioned more than all others combined, that is a reason to think he is more important. Things mentioned more often in the Bible are for a reason. Besides, that wasn’t the only reason I gave. I even linked to an article that lists 50.

  29. I’m listening to the part of the podcast where you guys discuss Kenneth’s voicemail and marriage as an analogy. Christian tells Jason that he should walk away from Christianity, stop praying, stop attending church, and so forth, so that he can make an objective decision. Two things.

    First, you losing faith after intentionally turning away from God and rejecting faith over and over again for a prolonged period of time is completely consistent with the teaching of Christianity. This is talked about in the Parable of the Sower, a parable important enough to understand that the Bible records Jesus’ explanation of it. Catholics would refer to those intentional actions as mortal sins, sin that extinguishes Sanctifying Grace from your soul. If you are constantly intentionally turning your back on God, eventually God lets you have what you really want. But if you are still alive, God is giving you opportunity to repent and change your mind.

    Second, you presented marriage and its early infatuation as an analogy of someone not thinking straight. So, would you also offer similar advice to a married couple that you gave to Jason: to separate for a year or two, not talk, not see one another, sleep around, so that they can make an objective decision? Probably not. Well, unless you were intentionally trying to ruin their marriage. If the marriage fell apart after following that advice, no one would be surprised.

    I think part of the problem is that most people view love as primarily emotion. They wrongly think that once the highs of emotion go away, that love has also gone away. But love is an act of the will, to will the good of another. It is a choice one makes, and continues to make over time. The emotion and hormones (spiritual consolation in the case of Faith), make that decision easy early in the relationship (just like in the religious sense), but you have to want it to continue later when these have faded. It is a sign of weak and immature relation (or Faith), that continuously needs these things. You must will to love another; you must put your love into action. This goes for spouses, family, friends, and Faith.

    Jesus, God’s revelation of Himself, wills the good of all others to the point of losing his life so that we might be saved.

  30. You guys briefly mentioned anarchy, a system “governed” from the bottom up. Regardless if that is the definition of anarchy, the idea that problems should be dealt with at the lowest, most immediate, level is called subsidiarity, a Catholic Social teaching. A system that tries to adopt all the Catholic Social teachings is Distributism; do you know much about it? I don’t know a ton about it, but G.K. Chesterton was a huge (pardon the pun) fan of it. From what I have heard of It, it sounds pretty good. I have no idea how it become instituted, it probably would have to come about naturally, some how.

  33. Hey Jason, I think you might find this interesting. It looks like your favorite James White stepped in it. He put up a racial post quoted below (since pulled down), and getting a ton of blow back from it. I think he might be addressing it today on his podcast. Here is the post:

    I bought a dash cam recently. Seems everyone in Russia has one (I guess you have to for insurance purposes), and I thought it would be pretty good to have to document some of the crazy things that happen while driving. So I was coming home this evening and happened to be the first car at Glendale and 35th Avenue in Phoenix. And as you will see, a young black kid, looks to be 15 years old or so, was crossing the street. Now if you watch, you will see a police SUV cross in front of me first going east. The kid then comes into the screen, and though he sort of hid it under his elbow, he plainly flips off the police vehicle. Then he is emptying the drink he is consuming as he walks out of the frame. What you can’t see is that he then simply tossed the bottle into the bush in the corner of the gas station. I happened to notice the two ladies in the car next to me had seen the same thing. We just looked at each other, put up our hands in exasperation, and shook our heads.

    As I drove away I thought about that boy. There is a more than 70% chance he has never met this father. In all probabilities he has no guidance, has no example. He is filled with arrogance and disrespect for authority. He lives in a land where he is told lies every day—the lie that he cannot, through hard work and discipline, get ahead, get a good education, and succeed at life. He is lied to and told the rest of the world owes him. And the result is predictable: in his generation, that 70% number will only rise. He may well father a number of children—most of which will be murdered in the womb, padding the pockets of Planned Parenthood, and those that survive will themselves be raised without a natural family, without the God-ordained structure that is so important for teaching respect, and true manhood or womanhood.

    It never crossed my mind to flip off a police car as it passed me by when I was his age. Of course, it never crossed my mind to walk around with my butt hanging out of my pants, either, as if the entire world needed to see what kind of underwear I was sporting that day. I know I would have been mighty guilty had I tossed my drink bottle into a bush—and I never would have dreamed of doing that in front of everyone like this young man did. But I had a father. And a mother. And I was taught to respect others, and myself. If I had not had those things, I still would not have acted as he, simply because times have changed, and not for the better. There was simply more restraint in my day. It surely makes me wonder what the future holds. Oh, I know—this is nothing. There are videos on line of kids like this shooting guns in the air and robbing people and doing car jackings. I know. But you need to understand: those folks didn’t get there without first finding it “fun” to strut, flip, toss, and live an attitude of disrespect.

  38. There were several landings on the Moon, y’all know that, right? The men who went to the Moon are mostly still alive today.

    The most difficult aspect of the Apollo missions was not getting there – it was ensuring the astronauts’ safety and safe returns. The Moon landings were calculated largely by hand, by men and women using slide rules and protractors. The physics of it were fairly simple; go up, slingshot around the Earth to get to the Moon, then jet off the Moon and fall back to Earth. The timing was more difficult to figure out than the orbit; where would the Moon be relative to Earth when the weather window was good enough for launch and re-entry?

    If you have a really good telescope, you can see the landers that were abandoned on the Moon’s surface.

  42. “A bunch of people decide to make it about race…” Right after you thought it was relevant to talk about race.

  44. It was hard to tell. It sounded like you said you no longer doubted, but I wasn’t sure about Jason and his friend.

  45. I agree with you on love and marriage and I think you’re actually making my point. Many people get married quickly because of infatuation, not love, not realizing that the infatuation phase will not last. Yes, to those people, they should step back and avoid marriage until a lengthy amount of time has passed, enough to make a clear-headed decision where love is as much a decision and commitment as it is a feeling.

    As far as my “mortal sins”, I know what the Bible says. It says all the same things I’d say if I wanted to start a man-made religion:

    Anyone who doesn’t believe is just not of us. You must have “ears to hear.”
    This is going to sound like foolishness to people who are perishing.
    Make sure to continually reaffirm your religion to yourself through church, fellowship, meditation in the Bible, the means of grace, prayer, etc., because there are invisible forces walking around trying to pull you away, so don’t be deceived by any philosophies that disagree with us.
    I’ll be back some day. Wait for me.

    If you can get people to believe those things, you’ve got them. I mean, you can’t even get away from those things and try to objectively look at your religion without committing mortal sins. Ha. I’m sorry. That’s just more proof to me that it’s a man-made religion.

    (EDIT: Imagine that HTML is a nice bulleted list.)

  48. It always seemed like the most important people in the NT to me were Paul, John, and Peter, in that order. (I know. I’m sure it’s a result of the system I was raised in.) Peter was presented as kind of a bumbling child that made a bunch of mistakes, got reprimanded a bunch, but also showed more zeal than most, even if it was often immature. John wrote a gospel and Revelation, plus 3 other books, so he gets 2nd place. Then Paul was smarter than them all and basically told everyone how to run the religion.

    So that’s what I got out of being a Protestant, but I didn’t go to Westminster, of course, where I probably would have gotten something different. I still can’t see Jesus intending Peter to be “the Rock” he was talking about building his church on, but again, but perhaps it’s just tough for me to see it through another lens. I sure as hell don’t want to spend a bunch of time arguing about it.

  50. Ha ha. Incredible. What do you think about this article?

    http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/03/doug-sosnik-memo-2016-is-over-213753

    And before you say that voter turnout is lower in the primaries for Democrats than Republicans, I should let you know that statistically that doesn’t mean anything. And no, these are not Christian Kingery statistics. Check out this article from FiveThirtyEight.com:

    http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/primary-turnout-means-nothing-for-the-general-election/

  51. If I am told when I’m 5 that dying is no big deal because I’m going to go to this wonderful place and be with all my friends and family when I die, and then 24 hours before I bite the dust I’m told that it’s not true, I’m going to spend the next 24 hours being pretty bummed out.

    If I am told that this life is all there is, and then I decide to make the most of it, and am told 24 hours before I die that this life is still all there is, my response will be, “Yeah, I already knew that. I was ready for that. I made the most of it.”

    That’s all I’m saying. I think there may or may not be something, and I’m not sad about it. If there is something and I get to enjoy it, then awesome! If there’s not, then why be sad about it. I won’t know.

  53. Yes maybe your analogy would be stronger if it wasn’t about marriage, but about the initial relationship. However, any relationship would be harmed by those suggestions.

    1. Start a relationship.
    2. Intentionally hurt/end relationship to gain “objectivity”.
    3. Notice that the relationship has been hurt.
    4. “Objectively” decide that original relationship wasn’t real and end it.
    5. Repeat.

    Seems like a recipe for never getting into a deep relationship – and staying agnostic. 😉

    As for your list, they could be things you would expect of a man-made religion or they could be aspects of a true religion. The one thing Christianity has going for it is that it wasn’t started by a single person claiming a private spiritual encounter. It was started by a man with a public ministry, who did public miracles, who died publically, rose from the dead publically, who had a public to attest to it later to the point of dying for it.

  54. I love five thirty eight and use them almost exclusively whenever i want to know something about the race. About the first article… It doesn’t surprise me that a former Clinton adviser thinks Clinton has it in the bag. I mean, come on, seriously? Trump is a wild card. But the fact is that Hillary Clinton is an enormously flawed candidate. So Trump being a goof ball matters less. Plus I think you underestimate the number of really really stupid people in the US. Case in point: California voted the Terminator into office. Trump has many people who are absolutely gung ho for his movement. Clinton has…. Not so many. Voting “against” the bad guy never works out. Just ask Mitt Romney or John Kerry. People need to be voting “for” someone in order for them to win.

    I still don’t think Trump will get the nomination, but if he does…

    1. All these cry babies (myself included) will still vote for him. Republicans always vote. They might claim they will abstain…. But they are lying.

    2. The GOP will split and I will be in the group leaving. Trump doesn’t represent liberal values. He isn’t a small government, liberty, personal responsibility, guy. He wants to be King Trump. Barf.

    But Hillary will not take the white house.

  55. Oh, and then there is Brussels. The note ISIS attacks the more the world realizes that leftist PC crapolla isn’t serving us well. ISIS attacks…. Trump looks reasonable. He called Brussels months ago and got crucified by the NY Times as a bigot. Welp…………..

  58. My original comment wasn’t thinking at all about the next life. It was just something I was thinking about recently when my uncle died (in his sixties). Both of my parents are the oldest, and both have lost younger siblings late in life. I was trying to imagine what it was like to watch someone close to you live the entire arc of their life, from pregnancy to death at old age. Dying young is tragic, everyone agrees (except you Christian.. ha!). But watching a loved one experience their entire typical mundane life, watching the original hopes and dreams slowly fade into reality, that’s what I was trying to imagine. It seems to cast a sad shadow over life itself…

    Did I ever tell you that I would probably be nihilist without my belief in God? I’m prone to having existential crises.

  59. Yes, but there is more to it than boots on the ground. Surveying Muslim communities, toughening up immigration, etc. Common sense things that make liberals burst into flames.

  61. Yeah, marriage isn’t a great analogy, but I’m not the one who made that analogy, and I’m also not advocating for the steps you list.

    Yes, it could. I just don’t think it is. And to bring it full circle, I don’t think the probability of it being a true religion are very good.

    Also, “public ally” is two words. 😉

  62. He could be dangerous. But I think his lying about the majority of his agenda. He is only dangerous if you think he actually believes this shit. I don’t think he does.

    The split won’t happen before the election is over. Its not like the curtain will be torn as the GOP establishment breathes its last. But a new party will emerge. No doubt about it.

  64. If you guys don’t want a Republican president, you need to tell ISIS to cut it out until after the election.

  66. A Republican president is responsible for creating ISIS. Here’s to hoping the majority of American voters aren’t as stupid as you seem to be claiming they are. There are different philosophies on how to defeat ISIS.

  68. Kneel before Peter’s episcopal successor and kiss his ring, or you can rot in hell while all us Catholics point and laugh at you.

  69. I have heard about it, but haven’t looked at it in any real depth. And again, when I use “anarchism” I am using it in the technical sense (as in, not just “chaos”). As such it is synonymous with classical libertarianism, socialism, and democracy.

  70. I thought it was initially. Then I remembered that he doesn’t think radiation from the Sun causes skin cancer, and I wasn’t sure anymore. =)

  71. Once I realized that Catholics claimed Peter’s primacy, I couldn’t stop seeing it in the Gospels.

    I sure as hell don’t want to spend a bunch of time arguing about it.”
    Aww, basic Catholic apologetics can be fun! Fiiiiine.

  72. The moon is just a hologram anyway. Like the “planes” that hit the Twin Towers.

  74. Who cares about the moon, there’s a grown woman that thinks Justin biebler is awesome!? “…the presence of good art will unconsciously refine a community, and poor art will do an incalculable harm…”

    And Christian, about your Occupy Christianity comment, while I would agree that today Christian Universalism (and this name sucks–too much baggage) is explicitly held by a tiny minority, this hasn’t always been the case. It was arguably the majority view of eschatology within Christendom early on if Schaff is correct. I understand this claim isn’t without controversy, but I offer it as a teaser to check out the history on the apokatastasis in the Christian church. And no, if God’s intention is to at last restore all and thereby be all in all, and hell is how he accomplishes this after judgement day, I don’t think it follows that becoming a disciple of Jesus is made void. If what he meant by the destruction that many will go in by to be the destruction of the corruptible in us, than that’s a very different thing. He also said everyone will be salted with fire, and he was talking to his disciples.

    GPN, peace out. 🙂

  75. Oh hell yes. I hope to discuss this is our next episode, it’s just too good not to have fun with.

  77. I think about that a lot. My dad died in 2014 at the age of 80. Even though he was the middle child, he outlived all of his siblings (4). I’m sure that was sad. However, all of his children also outlived him, which hopefully helped. If I experience something similar, I think I would be pretty content. If I outlive everyone, that will suck. Jason says that’s very unlikely though anyway. 😉

  78. It often does, sorry man. I hope it gets better for you. And if we’re fair with our memories, i think there’s evidence that even this hell comes to an end. 🙂

  79. You mean the decision to go into Iraq that Hillary voted for? Or do you mean the decision to pull out too soon that she also supported?

  81. marriage is a great analogy! Just ask Jesus….. I mean once you are done ignoring him to get a clear head!

    “Hey babe, its not working out. I want to live a few months apart and pretend you aren’t my wife. I’m gonna bang other women too. After that, I’ll get relationship advice from all the people that hate you. Then ill probably have a clear head.”

    Oh OK so you want a divorce. Lol

  82. The problem, as Lane pointed out, is you’re referring to marriage, when what you really mean is the point before you get married, the initial relationship, before you decide to get married.

  84. Hillary is hardly the litmus test for progressive ideas. Straight-up Democratic Party ideas, yes (along with Obama). But there is a difference between the Democratic Party and progressive ideas, which Bernie’s campaign illustrates pretty well.

  85. Also, another difference is that Hillary admits it was the wrong decision (and hopefully wouldn’t do it again) whereas Republicans largely still support the decision, even with it now in hindsight clearly creating the vacuum needed for a group like ISIS to arise.

  86. Yeah, sure. Same is true of the other side. But we aren’t voting for ideas. We are voting for people. Lane is right…. The more ISIS attacks, all the worse for the DNC

  95. What about annihilationism? If the opposite of good is evil and love hate, wouldn’t the opposite of eternal life be eternal destruction and not eternal torment?

  98. Hi Serena, there certainly are a lot of Christians who have believed this to be so. I was a conditionalist for about four years myself. To my mind it all comes down to how we’re supposed to understand the totality of what the Hebrew and Christian scriptures say about the nature of the final judgement. All three images are used when they speak explicitly about it, but even these are sparse. So it depends on how you read the analogous language used, and which images you give precedence to become the definitive voice. I do think infernalism has the weakest case that can be made from either scripture or moral perception.

  101. Except for the fact that he brought up race first, then presumed to know a lot of negative things about this young man based solely on this fact.

    Now he has added race to the topics he won’t discuss. He intentionally cuts himself off from fruitful conversation about the experiences of his fellow Christian brothers. Experiences they have today, not their ancestors. Brothers who don’t have the luxury of not seeing race and being colorblind. Brothers, who can’t just ignore the subject like it doesn’t exist. He lashed out and hurt people, and when they pointed out the fact that he hurt them, instead of listening to them he dismisses them.

    It doesn’t even matter if he is right, he is tone-deaf and dismissive. If he really cared about the people who he offended, he would talk to them. Instead he identifies a new heresy category in which he can label people who don’t see the world exactly as himself, justifying his rejection of them.

    He is lovely man.

  102. Funny, a year ago today I was sharing podcast #35 and I said this:

    “IIRC, topics include James White and I’m guessing from the picture, circumcision. Basically, one topic has to do with wieners…and the other with circumcision.”

  104. did anyone else think Johnny Terranova’s (badass name, btw) voice sounded like a quieter, more reserved Dan Savage?

  105. A firm belief in TULIP frees one from those concerns. I asked him a question whenever I was first considering becoming a Roman Catholic. He spent the better part of his podcast addressing my email but then mocked my “arminian concern for my family”. I was like wtf?!?

  106. Yeah he really wanted Rubio. Which would have been the obvious choice to win. The point is that hardly anyone will come out to for FOR Hillary. But people will come out and vote AGAINST Trump. I don’t put much weight in those people actually showing up at the ballot box.

  107. But I don’t think he said anything that offensive. The numbers are what they are and there are times when stereotypes are appropriate. If a black person sits down to eat I’m going to assume he is a shitty tipper. Is that mean? No. After ten years of waiting tables I know that the odds are excellent the waiter is getting screwed. Black people have a 70% single mother rate. A stereotype need not be offensive when the percentages are that high

  109. Sounds about right. Do you know which episode/have a link to that podcast?

    I think he is a sharp guy, a sharp debater, but he simply isn’t winsome. Now that I think about it:

    James White is to apologetics, as Ted Cruz is to politics. Even when I agree, I feel they are just too absolutist, too ridged. They give no ground. Every hill is a hill on which to die.

  110. Have you guys seen this? Paul Ryan, the Speaker of the House, admitted that he has been wrong about the way he has talked about the poor in the past. Maybe James White should take note.

    “There was a time when I would talk about a difference between ‘makers’ and ‘takers’ in our country, referring to people who accepted government benefits. But as I spent more time listening, and really learning the root causes of poverty, I realized I was wrong. ‘Takers’ wasn’t how to refer to a single mom stuck in a poverty trap, just trying to take care of her family. Most people don’t want to be dependent. And to label a whole group of Americans that way was wrong. I shouldn’t castigate a large group of Americans to make a point.

    “So I stopped thinking about it that way—and talking about it that way. But I didn’t come out and say all this to be politically correct. I was just wrong.”

    https://sojo.net/articles/watch-paul-ryan-publicly-repents-past-comments-about-poor#sthash.8uwROtol.dpuf

  112. Its been years so I wouldn’t have a clue where to even start looking. I guess maybe 2012? I wrote him a pissed off email afterwards and he wrote back explaining why he was offended at my being offended. I like James though. He is good at what he does……

    And don’t blaspheme the name of Cruz!!!!

  114. I only have a problem with hell if you tell me what your version of hell is. If it’s the version Christian and Jason grew up with then you have to believe the resurrected Christ not only made Heaven possible but also that he opened up the gates of Hell as well. I don’t see how you can work you way around it, just like I don’t think you can believe in predestination and not double-predestination.

  119. I don’t know. It could be true. I just find it ironic that this attack will probably land on Cruz, but not Trump.

  121. I think Trump is behind it is what I’m saying. Anonymous supposedly (I have a hard time believing it) says they will release info that Cruz hires prostitutes. Trump latches on to the scandal narrative and starts talking about having nude selfies of Cruz’s wife, then he gets his buddy at the National Enquirer to print that he’s had affairs, etc.

  122. Beating Hillary right now in the useless “hypothetical matchups”. To use Kingery statistics…. I’m 65% confident he will be the nominee. If its close I think he will definitely win the convention.

  123. The only way he’ll get the nomination is if the GOP has a contested convention and they deny the nomination to the person who originally got the most delegates (Trump), in which case your party is going to implode. The “hypothetical matchups” don’t include that information.

  124. It only will implode if Trump or some establishment guy like Rubio or Ryan become the nominee. I really don’t think it will with Ted Cruz. He is just as much an outsider as Trump. Plus, I think Trump is getting a lot of trouble making democrat votes and people who have never voted before. They can all suck it.

    Meanwhile…. Hillary.

  125. If a democrat wins the white house I will shave my head bald and get a tatoo of your face on my naked scalp. It ain’t gonna happen man. Hillary is really THAT bad

  126. It’s like you just can’t see what I’m saying…which I guess is not that odd. Ha.

    Trump is going to get more delegates than Cruz. The people who voted for him and are passionate about him are going to be pissed if (in their minds) the GOP steals the nomination from him. The GOP will lose a huge voting block. At that point, the Dems could nominate anyone (even Hillary) and walk away with it. The people who would be left voting after Trump’s voters leave aren’t even passionate about Cruz in the least bit (see Lindsey Graham for an example). If they give the nomination to Trump, many Republicans (the more sensible ones) will be disgusted and either leave the party or not vote. It’s a lose/lose situation.

  128. Yes I totally understand the theory. But there is one very important factor uncalculated. Republicans ALWAYS vote. Its in our DNA. We can’t help ourselves. We will vote for a Mormon. We will vote for a crippled old guy and Sarah Palin. We will vote during presidential cycles, and we will vote in off years. We will vote no matter what.

    Its like a green eggs and ham book for adults. Yes we will vote in a box. Oh, yes, we will vote with a fox. We will vote here or there. We will vote anywhere.

    All the people saying they won’t vote for anyone but Trump are just lying. A republican abstaining from a national election is like a Jew eating bacon. Or a Muslim skipping Ramadan. Its like a liberal supporting prayer in schools. That shit just isn’t going to happen. Especially with a freaking CLINTON running for office.

  130. If a contested convention gives the nomination to, let’s say, Mitt Romney. I would be FURIOUS. There would be riots in the street. But then, after that, we would all get over it and go vote for mitt. We arent the same as leftists. We have traditional american values.

  132. Lol!

    Democrats fall in love. Republicans fall in line.

    An old saying, but still completely true.

  135. Its guilty by accusation. The Trump campaign spokeswoman has said the allegations are nonsense. So have a few NE editors. They are gambling that he has probably slept with someone and been unfaithful to his wife. The hope is that these people will start stepping forward and make the paper look genius. But Savage and other Trump supporters have threatened to withdraw their endorsement unless Trump disavows the whole thing. Trump is serious sleaze. So far I think the move has backfired on him more than hurt Ted

  136. A vacuum requires two things.

    1. Sadam out

    2. US gone.

    If Obama had listened to his generals, rather than fire them until he found someone who thought like him, part 2 never would have occurred. Republicans were part of the problem 1. But Hillary earned the honor of fucking up twice lol!

    Seriously flawed candidate

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