Podcast #79: Can’t We All Just Get Along?

25 January 3, 2016 by

79We begin this episode of Drunk Ex-Pastors by taking a call that causes us to wrestle with the proper term for cripples (as in, is it wrong to call them cripples? We aren’t sure, but we’re looking into it). We then take another voice mail from the same listener, but we become distracted by trying to outdo one another with our best Midwest accents (ookee dookee, y’betcha). After we have sufficiently amused ourselves we deal with her actual question, which results in our spending a good chunk of time addressing the issue of fostering and maintaining relationships with people with whom we disagree over significant issues. We take a voice mail about Satanism and another about good guys with guns, and then move on to another installment of our segment, “Go Home, Google, You’re Drunk.” In our “Dick Move, God” segment we are introduced to an evangelist who is so unsuccessful that not even the good Lord himself is willing to help the poor guy out, which leads us to the issue of what it would take to lure our resident agnostic back into the Christian fold.

Also, we apologize in advance for anyone we offended in this episode. Political correctness is hard (and we’re not even cripples).

Links from this Episode:

25 Comments (click here to leave a comment)

  1. • Good political correctness (Can we retire that label?) reminds you that there is a fellow man or woman bearing dignity and the image of God beneath the labels we use. Bad political correctness denies the basic humanity and dignity of the person by implying that they are incapable of holding elevated discourse and must be coddled like an infant. The line may sometimes be fuzzy. Err on the side of charity.

    • The question for your listener that I would have is “Why are you Republican? What part of their stated political agenda do you embrace and why? Or are you Republican because that is what you have been and your parents were?” Because Republicans generally (not always), but generally the party is for entrenched economic and racial power systems, strongly pro-war, anti-environmental, anti-union and worker’s rights, for reverse economic redistribution, anti-poor, and pro-outsourcing.

    • Democrats aren’t Republicans. They aren’t great, but let’s take Obama as an example. Do you imagine any Republican actually doing anything at all to help the poor get healthcare?

    • I’ve often said that the difference between the GOP and the Democratic party is that chances are you’re going to get fucked over by them, but the Democratic party still feels a little guilty about it afterwards and sends you off with cab fare and breakfast money.

    • I’m not fond of Hillary either, but given the choice between her and Ted Cruz, well… at least I trust Hillary not to kick off Armageddon. It would be bad for business.

    • I still appreciate the Republican skepticism of government, but I Think they often take it to an unhealthy extreme. In an ideal government, there would be periodic reviews of policies and regulations by Congress to see if those policies and regulations are accomplishing their stated ends and doing so with the least cost and opportunity cost to the actual benefit and if they were too costly or weren’t meeting their ends, we should modify them or replace them with a new policy to address the problem.

    • I had a talk about reality and fantasy with my 6 year-old before going to see The Force Awakens. I think I reacted to that scene worse than he did.

    • I liked the movie. It was a lot of fun so long as I didn’t think about just how bad things got between singing teddy bears and Jakku.

    • Stormtroopers weren’t clones. The clones were phased out after the Clone Wars. If you watch Star Wars Rebels with your kids, they have a few episodes involving the Stormtrooper youth who are being trained to wear the white armor. Judging from how well Stormtroopers work, this training must involve how to miss your target and how to fall down and die.

    • Jedi either can’t be cloned or if they can, the clones must be aged in real time or they go insane from mystical Force mumbo jumbo.

    • Gun Fail: I just read an article today about an open carry activist who was robbed at gunpoint and has his gun stolen.

    • Well, I think if I saw a man raised from the dead and I found out that God was burning my father alive constantly forever, his pleas for mercy ignored, his sorrow overlooked, I’m not sure I’d want to spend eternity with that sort of being.

    • I mean, yeah, we’ve done hell before, but seriously, the thought of sitting around in heaven singing songs to Jesus while the smoke of my father’s torment was rising before him isn’t comforting, it’s rather chilling.

    • How about a hotline to heaven? Or God Chat? Some place we could send questions and get God to answer them. “Hey, God, why didn’t you heal my mom of cancer?” “Hey, Lord, why was I impressed into service as a child soldier?” “Hey, God, just wondering why you’d let my relative rape me?” “Why are there pediatric cancer wards?”

    • My thoughts on ‘hell’ is that it would involve having your eyes opened to the pain you’ve caused others through your actions, inactions, and words. Imagine experiencing the collective hurt of everyone you’d hurt. Every unkind word. Every callous deed. It all comes back to you and you can see it and feel it through their eyes.

    It would feel like eternity.

  2. Yeah, yeah, the world famous brain surgeon, billionaire real estate mogul, and one of the most “off the charts” brilliant law students to ever grace Harvard University are all a bunch of moronic clowns….. and for our second reality check of the day, capitalism….

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yLiVoHuBvNI

  3. No one said Ben Carson wasn’t a great neurosurgeon, Donald Trump wasn’t successful with real estate, or that whoever you’re referring to (I’m gonna guess your boy Cruz) wasn’t a good lawyer.

  4. Hey guys, I’m Cristobal from Chile.

    Just wanted to say that you guys are fucking awesome.

    Pd: sorry if I butchered your lenguage.

  5. So they are only stupid morons when it comes to religion and politics? When is it that they all transform from top of the line Harvard grads into imbeciles? Do you think Bernie Sanders understands the constitutional law better than Cruz? Or that Clinton is as dependable in war time as Rubio? Give me a break man the top of the GOP field is great and only one candidate loses to Hilary in the general election (based off of early polling) and that’s Trump. I have no problem saying that Bernie Sanders is a great guy with really forward ideas. I have no problem saying that Hilary is very politically savvy and excels in playing the media. Y’all should be able to give republicans credit too. These guys aren’t all clowns. Rubio and Cruz are total bad asses. Keep in mind that they HAVE to say certain things to get past the primary. After that, the masks come off and we see the real candidate.

  9. I probably wouldn’t call them stupid morons, just disingenuous and really good at convincing themselves they’re right regardless if they really are or not. Really smart people can convince themselves of very stupid things if they say it enough times. I think the problem probably not only lies with the candidates themselves but also the type of people they attract with their rhetoric and half-truths. People hang on every word these candidates say. The fact that they “have” to say certain things to get past the primary is proof that the established system is bullshit.

    Just from an anecdotal perspective, Trump’s and Cruz’s supporters have no interest in compromising on anything. They cry of religious persecution and liberty but only if it’s their religious freedom and liberty at stake. It’s not productive.

    I don’t give a shit if you’re a successful neurosurgeon or Harvard law grad or real estate mogul or career politician, if you continue to perpetuate divisiveness, inferiority complexes, fear, and xenophobia under the guise of “american values” to advance your political agenda, you deserve no respect from me.

  10. Oh, dude, come on. Perpetuate divisiveness? Read Black lives matter. Fear? Read global warming. Inferiority complex? Read same sex marriage. All of this is the same on both sides. It’s a difference of opinion. Simple as that. Demonizing the other side of the aisle while pretending the democratic party is comprised of these angels is divisive. It’s also insulting.

    PS,

    Xenophobia? Nobody is promoting xenophobia. People throw that at donald trump because the left is too pussy to say Islamic terrorism. Don’t bomb ISIS oil for environmental concerns. Don’t say Islam. Don’t profile people in any way shape or form even though we know which religion is causing all the bullshit. When you live in Fairyland I can see how the Donald is shocking. Most don’t support him even on the right. But I would rather err on the side of caution than on the side of PC crappola

  11. They aren’t morons. They’re lying sacks of crap bought and paid for by special interests, or people who have bought into American Christianity heresy in which capitalism bears equal weight with scripture, or sociopaths seeking power who are skilled at manipulating mass opinion.

    They are to a tee dangerous hawks, advocates of a failed reverse distributive Objectivist economic system, proponents of anti-life and anti-environmental causes, blind to current and past institutional racism and the systemic racism of the past that has contributed to inner city conditions today, blind to the injustices of the legal system, lacking the capacity for empathy or the ability to change ideology in the face of contrary evidence. .

    They are blind guides to the blind, leading us all into a pit.

    It is a fallacy to believe that because one is skilled in their occupation that one is equally skilled in every other interest they have.

    My mechanic is quite skilled, but I wouldn’t trust him with nuclear launch codes and a 3 trillion dollar economy.

  12. Ok so they aren’t dumb they are just racist, sexist, power hungry, anti~life (oh, the irony), sociopaths. That koolaid y’all are sipping must be wonderful. How does someone as smart you become so indoctrinated? You sound like a Calvinist explaining total depravity lol!

    An expert in constitutional law is a little different than a mechanic right?

  13. Because I was a conservative Republican with libertarian tendencies, and I lived long enough to see the failure of those economic ideology and foreign policy in action.

    I have lived to see what the consequences are of solely defining the common good in terms of profits and losses.

    Most denominations of Christianity believe in the inherent sinfulness of man and yet, American Christianity blindly trusts the ideology that says that corporations will act in their own long term best interests (sometimes they naively assume that if they don’t, they will face consequences.)

    Yet, we cannot trust corporations to police themselves or act in the best interests of themselves, the communities they reside in, or their countrymen. They are amoral engines of profit sometimes staffed by immoral agents of greed who would (and have) sacrificed their companies for personal profit, destroyed the world economy, gone hat in hand to the government for a bailout, and then resisted any attempts to change the policies that led to the abuses or prevent them from abusing the system in the future.

    I have been poor and I have worked 110 hour weeks for shit pay. I have been sick without health insurance. I have dealt with crippling depression without having access to medication that would have helped. I have had to choose between paying a bill and eating.

    Because I had (and have) family to help, I have become middle class. Others seeking to better themselves do not have family to help.

    I have seen my father retire with union benefits and live a modest, but comfortable life, while I have seen others fired from right-to-work places after decades of service forced to live on government assistance.

    I have seen what ignorant, fearful aggression has led to in the Middle East, and if, as you often say, I am too leery of demonizing Islam, perhaps because too often the consequences of our collective hawkish actions are worse than the perceived threat that existed before we intervened.

    I have black friends and read news stories of black interactions with the police. I have read of the history of systemic racism and white supremacy that led to the creation of the inner city ghettos and the war on some citizens who use drugs that trap black men in prison or menial labor for a youthful offense.

    I have seen tax cuts lead to booming deficits instead of the promised fiscal boom.

    And thus, I have rejected the policies of the Republican party which have done good for our country lately.

    If there is to be hope for our nation, we must change the way we define the common good away from dollars and cents and statistics into quality of life for our citizens.

    There must be more checks and balances between the government, the corporate interests, and the citizens of this country.

    The Democratic party is not much better, but men like Sanders still give me hope that a smoldering reed might burst into a roaring fire again and restore some balance to our nation.

  14. Because I was a conservative Republican with libertarian tendencies, and I lived long enough to see the failure of those economic ideology and foreign policy in action.

    Really? I’m curious, when were you born? Let’s say you are fifty years old. Economic mobility is exactly the same as it was fifty years ago. No more, no less. The stock market and GDP have more than doubled. Middle class is right about the same. What exactly are you looking at? Further, what about your time in seminary equipped you to have such certainty in your economic diagnosis? There have been many different people in office during that time. Which policies are responsible for what outcome? If your gonna throw the kind of bombs your tossing I’m expecting to hear all about your PhD from Cambridge in economic theory. Otherwise, isn’t it true that you honestly don’t know what you are talking about? And if that’s the case, why such vitriol?

    I have lived to see what the consequences are of solely defining the common good in terms of profits and losses.
    Most denominations of Christianity believe in the inherent sinfulness of man and yet, American Christianity blindly trusts the ideology that says that corporations will act in their own long term best interests (sometimes they naively assume that if they don’t, they will face consequences.)
    Yet, we cannot trust corporations to police themselves or act in the best interests of themselves, the communities they reside in, or their countrymen. They are amoral engines of profit sometimes staffed by immoral agents of greed who would (and have) sacrificed their companies for personal profit, destroyed the world economy, gone hat in hand to the government for a bailout, and then resisted any attempts to change the policies that led to the abuses or prevent them from abusing the system in the future.

    Which companies are those? All of them without exception? These are the same companies that provide us with goods and services correct? The same ones that provide income to the hundreds of millions of people around the country? Perhaps the same company that pays you today? If you became an entrepreneur would you then be one of those evil demagogues? Certainly there should be oversight, but how much? That’s a much more difficult and nuanced question to answer. Further, from what pool of people will you pull from to organize these demons? Where are these angels that will organize society and profits for us? Is political self interest more noble than economic self interest? A call for more government doesn’t heal depravity. It only puts all the sharks in the same tank.


    I have been poor and I have worked 110 hour weeks for shit pay. I have been sick without health insurance. I have dealt with crippling depression without having access to medication that would have helped. I have had to choose between paying a bill and eating.
    Because I had (and have) family to help, I have become middle class. Others seeking to better themselves do not have family to help.
    I have seen my father retire with union benefits and live a modest, but comfortable life, while I have seen others fired from right-to-work places after decades of service forced to live on government assistance.

    And people saw much worse in the USSR and communist China. Far worse. That’s the principle you guys are missing. It’s not about which economic theory feels good on paper. It’s about which one DOES the most good for the most amount of people. The fact is that capitalism has helped launch mankind from village huts to the galleries mall. Capitalism unleashes ingenuity with incentives that drive production. Is it perfect? No. But how about we tinker before revolutionizing our entire market?

    I have seen what ignorant, fearful aggression has led to in the Middle East, and if, as you often say, I am too leery of demonizing Islam, perhaps because too often the consequences of our collective hawkish actions are worse than the perceived threat that existed before we intervened.

    That’s a great reason to be against regime change. Which Clinton is FOR and Cruz/Rubio are against.

    I have black friends and read news stories of black interactions with the police. I have read of the history of systemic racism and white supremacy that led to the creation of the inner city ghettos and the war on some citizens who use drugs that trap black men in prison or menial labor for a youthful offense.

    Great, so you should be for personal character development that enables men and women to get out of these ghettos. You should promote the education and development of skills in these communities. You should want to give these people the tools to pick themselves up and do something greater. But what is more able to do this IN REALITY and not just on paper? Conservative or liberal policies? I can tell you most inner cities are governed by liberals. New York, Chicago, Houston, Baltimore, you name it. Long standing democratic leadership. Where is the fruit? Obama just had 8 years. What progress has been made for those in the hood? Not much.

    I have seen tax cuts lead to booming deficits instead of the promised fiscal boom.
    And thus, I have rejected the policies of the Republican party which have done good for our country lately.

    Deficits are the problem?!? Seriously? Liberals are all about blowing the deficit. Obama has literally ran every credit card available. This is better than tax cuts? I don’t think so buddy.

    If there is to be hope for our nation, we must change the way we define the common good away from dollars and cents and statistics into quality of life for our citizens.
    There must be more checks and balances between the government, the corporate interests, and the citizens of this country.
    The Democratic party is not much better, but men like Sanders still give me hope that a smoldering reed might burst into a roaring fire again and restore some balance to our nation.

    Yes, because the economy is so terrible right now with a five percent unemployment rate, a booming wall street, and gas pricing low as it’s been in forever. Don’t fix something that ain’t broke. Tinker first. Gradual change. Test the waters. Otherwise you get Obamacare and everyone’s left scratching their heads wondering wtf happened. Which is what the conservative party is all about. Less squawking about revolutionizing the economy and more principled analytical examination of reality.

  16. Maybe because of our differing worldviews we have different interpretations of divisiveness. I didn’t mean to infer dems are saints in this. Maybe just the lesser of two evils? You’re right. It’s like my opinion, man. I just haven’t seen any sort of attempt at compromise from the far right/tea party. Advocating against two adult Americans getting married based on your personal religious beliefs seems divisive to me. Discounting documented and peer-reviewed scientific study as fear mongering seems divisive. Complaining that your religion is under attack and your being persecuted against while enjoying a majority position is the epitome of delusion. Parading around your political ideology as the only true American family values seems divisive as well.

    As Jason (maybe Christian?) pointed out, Sanders doesn’t seem to be posturing at all and he will not get elected because of it. There’s something fundamentally wrong with that.

    I’ve agreed with you on here before about Dems and their fear to call Islamic extremism what it really is. However, “erring on the side of caution” does not mean we have to swallow the bs trump is throwing out. There’s a middle ground we have to find. Right now, Repubs don’t want to find it and Dems can’t see it because their heads are too far up their own asses.

  17. Hey Guys,
    Julie from Nor Dakota here 🙂 Thanks for playing my voicemails, I was so surprised you chose them. I don’t think I was very clear about the “hearing impaired” thing. I completely agree with you guys that saying “impaired” versus “deaf” can sometimes clarify that a person is not completely unable to hear. I really was just trying to say that putting a disability in front of someone’s name, especially a child, really blows. I loved it when you joked about introducing your kids as “name, deaf, and name”.

    I actually had one of my really liberal friends listen to the second voicemail on your podcast regarding me saying that I think the media is making all of the candidates look bad, and he literally said “no, that’s the Republicans that are doing that” which is exactly what you said, Christian. I liked your two cents about the political system and how candidates will act more extreme to get the GOP or Democratic nomination and then doodle over to being moderate after they receive it. I really never thought of that, but it makes so much sense! This friend personally thinks Cruz is the anti christ……

    Anyways, I don’t want to get into these political debates below as I am a science person and not an economic/political person, although I feel very strongly and set in my political views as Republican.

    Jason, the amount of large words you use is astonishing. I listen to you guys in my car, but if I didn’t I would be looking up a majority of your vocabulary. I really love hearing you talk about becoming Catholic, and love hearing about your views on the church. Lastly, your fight about dad bods and Christian literally yelling before the podcast cut out so you two could argue in your home is my favorite podcast moment.

  18. Economics:

    Wages: http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/05/26/408555544/despite-economic-climb-american-paychecks-remain-stuck

    http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2015/09/02/3697832/epi-wages-productivity/

    Uninsured rates: https://wallethub.com/edu/rates-of-uninsured-by-state-before-after-obamacare/4800/

    The failure of supply side economics:

    http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_failure_of_republican_economics_20141229

    https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/economy/news/2012/08/01/11998/the-failure-of-supply-side-economics/

    http://primary.slate.com/articles/business/the_dismal_science/1996/08/supplyside_virus_strikes_again.html

    Deficit spending:

    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/10/gop-presidents-have-been-the-worst-contributors-to-the-federal-debt/264193/

    The 2007 recession:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/02/opinion/krugman-why-economics-failed.html?_r=1

    The negative effects of capitalism:

    The “losers” in the economic game:

    http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21565956-americas-poor-were-little-mentioned-barack-obamas-re-election-campaign-they-deserve

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-islam/opportunity-inequality-th_b_7062240.html

    War:

    Rubio is for regime change in Syria, Cruz is against. Many have called for carpet bombing. Many have called for shipping more weapons to groups in Syria that will likely hand them over to ISIS. All but four candidates advocate a No Fly Zone which would mean shooting down Russian planes currently operating in Syria.

    Cruz would like to send weapons to Ukraine. Cruz would like to suspend the nuclear agreement with Iran and has threatened regime change if he feels they are pursuing a nuclear weapon.

    The GOP foreign policy of preventative war and aggression has been a failure. When the current president has pursued a similar policy, it has likewise been disastrous.

    Rand Paul was the sanest candidate outside of Sanders on the topic of war, but has also flirted with more aggressive hawkish policies.

    On black culture:

    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/03/the-secret-lives-of-inner-city-black-males/284454/

    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/03/black-pathology-and-the-closing-of-the-progressive-mind/284523/

    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/03/other-peoples-pathologies/359841/

    We have been tinkering with the economy. Rigging it to favor businesses at the expense of workers. Capitalism is imperfect and we are not living in an either-or world of capitalism or Soviet style communism, comrade. We need stronger empowered workers. We need harsher penalties for corporate breaking of the law. We need to exercise antitrust laws to ensure that no company is too big to fail or has the ability to hold the American economy hostage. We need laws to push corporations back to being model citizens in their communities, so that the worst of the abuses result in real jail time for the people responsible. We need more taxation to push wealth out more evenly so we can fund those schools in the inner city, so we can provide real jobs that pay a living wage in communities where investment is lacking.

    But you know, I’m sure if we only cut tax rates to 0% and let corporations police themselves we’d all be living in paradise in no time, right?

    Yes, that would be hyperbole. But if you can call me a communist, I can call you an objectivist. 🙂

  19. I wasn’t calling you a communist. The reference was only to highlight that what “feels good” often doesn’t actually work. There are endless examples of this kind of failure, communism is just the easiest target. We can play the google game all day and post 1k links each showing the virtue of each camp, but at the end of the day things just arent that black and white. Sometimes the economy needs some liberal oversight. Sometimes its best to just let things go or ease up. Economics is hella complicated mate. But insisting that Republicans are evil, war mongering, anti-life, pro-poverty, psychopaths, is uncharitable and flat out wrong.

    We all want to help the poor. We all want to have peace. We all want equality. But we have very different ideas on how to accomplish these things. Demonizing the people who dont share your particular vision is not what democracy should be all about.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPVDfhXQfw8

  20. Here is an example from my Facebook feed which was liked by some of my conservative friends and I see many others like this:

    “TIME FOR THE REVOLUTION.

    This criminal and his ilk will cost the lives of a lot of people with his reckless policies. He should be hung on the Whitehouse lawn for treason along with every person that supports him. This country has effectively been divided by him, the democrats, and progressive liberals into a nation of two cultures: American Patriots and Pseudo-American Parasites. We are now a mix of Lions and Vultures. The lions will win when the time comes but let’s not wait too long.”

    So yes, I was wrong to imply that ALL Republicans are evil, insane, or sociopathic. I apologize.

    Some Republicans are evil, insane, or sociopathic, and they seem to be the loudest ones right now. The ones cheering when the leading presidential candidate says Mexico sends us its rapists and drug dealers. The ones cheering about 2nd amendment solutions to political disagreements. The ones demanding more war and carpet bombing in the Middle East.

    This isn’t our father’s GOP or our grandfather’s GOP which actually fought JFK to keep taxes on the wealthy at 90% because they were concerned about the impact on the deficit. The Overton window has moved so far to the right these days that a rather moderate Democratic president who instituted a health care plan based on Republican ideas and a similar plan created by a GOP governor is a traitor, a dangerous socialist who is plotting to destroy America and must be destroyed along with his followers.

    I wish there were more GOP voices who would stand up and say what you just posted and be willing to compromise and come to solutions to address our national problems. All I’m seeing these days are the maximalist crazies.

  23. For anyone keeping track of liberal nonsense….

    Two different refugees just arrested for trying to help ISIS. One in Texas, one in California. Hooray for refugees!

    Not that we are keeping score…. But that’s an innocent verdict on every single high profile “black lives matter” case (New York, Chicago, Baltimore, Missouri, on and on) and ALREADY two terrorist refugees. It’s not about what feels good friends. It’s about what does good. You liberals need to learn how to handle painful truths.

    https://youtu.be/IC7ZU5vGPy0

  24. Here is a painful truth: “Since the 2001 terrorist attacks, about 785,000 refugees have arrived in the country, and fewer than 20 have been arrested or removed over terrorism-related concerns, according to the State Department.”

    That would be .0025%.

    Surely, such numbers demand that we must tell any and all future refugees to piss off and die.

  25. Oh, good. So we caught a couple alleged bad guys without building a wall or shunning refugees? Interesting. Why not congratulate law enforcement on a job well done (if these guys really are terrorists) instead of spewing divisive political diatribe? Oh yeah. That’s not “real talk” and “telling it like it is”.

    So what if those cops got acquitted? It’s a little shortsighted to say, “These cops were found innocent, so obviously racism does not exist and black lives matter is a farce, you silly liberals.” To borrow a movie quote, How can you be so obtuse?

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