Podcast #24: A Year without God, Clarifications, and Transgenderism

38 January 4, 2015 by

finalIn this episode of Drunk Ex-Pastors, after a quick discussion about the ways they would abuse lucid dreaming and why living like Jesus would completely screw up one’s life, Christian and Jason analyze the recently finished yearlong experiment of Ryan Bell, a former pastor who decided last January to live like an atheist and report his findings. They then address feedback from listeners on the topics of scientific theory (it’s just theory!), torture (it’s totally OK!), and Capitalism (they hate it, obviously). They then address the recent suicide of Leelah (Joshua) Alcorn, a transgender teen who was told by their parents that “God doesn’t make mistakes.” Jason is biebered by rhyming with poor timing, and Christian is biebered by people who are biebered by New Year’s resolutions.

Also, Christian explains why you should be happy that your partner would like to have sex with other people.

38 Comments (click here to leave a comment)

  1. Loss of faith for me. Perhaps they’re related. Perhaps they’re unrelated. Getting divorced was one of the best things that ever happened to me.

  2. Erik, everyone has difficult things happen to them in their lives. So if you’re going to play that game, you can link anyone’s change in belief to a traumatic event in their life if it makes you feel better. I could say the same thing of many Christians. Personally, it drives me crazy when people excuse opinions different than theirs in this way, but it is convenient if you don’t want to actually look at the facts and try to really understand why the person changed their mind.

    For myself, my change of mind had very little, if anything, to do with any “traumatic” event in my life. You can believe me or not. I’m fine with that.

  3. My move away from Christianity had very little, if anything, to do with any traumatic experience in my life. Frankly, I’ve never been very traumatized by anything that’s happened to me. I’m not going to admit something just because you like to stereotype people who change their beliefs.

  6. I’m not sure what you’re referring to. However, I have Evangelical friends who have adopted black kids from a third world country. I commend them for it. However, they then turn around and loathe any type of social government programs in America that give assistance to the poor because that’s what their political pundits tell them to do.

  7. We’re fine with not everyone agreeing with us, Erik. We don’t even agree with each other all of the time, obviously. I do think you need to listen with a more open mind. You accuse us of stereotyping, but what you hear from us seems to be a stereotype in itself. We criticize an aspect of Capitalism and you think we want to be rid of the whole thing and just spout liberal crap to make ourselves feel morally superior.

  8. Erik,

    I think you’ve forgotten what kind of podcast this is, which is ironic. Think of it as less in the style of Called to Communion (which is all about proving everything with airtight arguments) and more like your own stomping grounds of Old Life (which is more about how its host feels about the various topics he addresses).

    When CTC does what you’re doing, namely, demand proof, you criticize them for a robotic devotion to demonstration and logic. So let’s all hold hands and be happy that neither of us is erring on the side of the detached and non-human.

    We are the world. We are the children.

  10. If we became some sort of respectable team of investigators reporting “just the facts, ma’am,” we’d quickly lose most of our 20,000 weekly listeners. I mean, we’re called “Drunk Ex-Pastors,” for feck’s sake!

  15. Erik, and DEP, maybe we just realize that when we craft our arguments, MOST of us frame our arguments in a way that benefits our view (either conscious, or sub-consciously).
    When you take that into account, it eases you considerably; I have listened to the podcast, been pissed that one or both used their framing of the argument to their advantage so as to present the position as though it were only one or another options, but then I realize we all do it, and that most (if not all) of their listeners are intelligent folks, and I relax.

    Also understand that they are sexist, racist pigs! 😉

    Much love from the non sounding Yorkshireman in Missouri

  16. Erik,

    Shameful, really.

    Your mom’s shameful, really.

    PS – See? Now you know what it’s like when someone like me tries to interact with you and the co-inhabitants of your echo chamber!

  17. If he’s losing his religion, shouldn’t Stipe’s wings be falling off or something? You know, like when Kramer was protesting mail and put the bucket on the effigy’s head. (“Because we’re blind to their tyranny.” “Then shouldn’t the bucket be on your head?” “Move along, mom.”)

    See, Erik, that’s the kind of breezy comment to make here (I think).

    On the less breezy side, I don’t actually listen to these casts of pod, but sometimes when my desk job gets boring I skip around one if it turns up in my FB feed.. I’m not sure at which point it was, but something reminded me about how even the staunchest of anti-religionists exercise some form of faith when they hold, for example, that humans evolved from fish. Then they turn around and uncharitably portray conventional religious belief as whacky for holding that humans were made from dust by an unseen divine ghost breathing on it (or whatever). Religionists of course return the favor and portray the fish theory as crazy. But isn’t faith supposed to be a tad bizarre? Why is that a point against the other guy’s system?

  18. Jason, I thought maybe you should golf with Erik (as I mentioned on Oldlife dot org), now I’m not so sure. Plus, I almost forgot..

    Jason J. Stellman said,
    August 22, 2012 at 9:56 pm

    PS – Golf’s for people who don’t surf….

    I, for one, welcome you back to our echo chamber anytime, amigo.

    Peace.

  19. Zrim, they mention a Seinfeld clip in this episode, although I only made it 30 minutes in or so on my commute this morning.

    Keep up the humorous work fellas. Darryl’s playground is a good model to emulate, if I do say so myself. It’s great to see Christian show up there. Take care, and again, keep up the good work!

  20. Erik is a fan of capitalists
    Death answers in its own peculiar way
    The mist cleared uncovering the sleeping psychiatrists
    Oh, help me my sand box is wet and I have no place to play!

    This rhyming poem brought to you by the Heretical Rhyme Generator at pangloss.com.

  21. Erik,

    I’m really not interested in trading insults with someone I have never even met. If you like our show, keep listening. If you don’t, don’t. And if you want to slag me off at Old Life, get in line. I gave up losing sleep over others’ disapproval long ago.

    If you’re ever in Seattle, the first round’s on me. And I’d love it if there were a second, but either way, I’m good.

  22. Appreciative that you included the Leelah tragedy. It’s so easy to hate what we don’t understand. Probably a survival mechanism built in to our psyche – something not understandable could potentially be a danger to us. The story is terribly tragic for all sides, especially if assuming that the parents were responding in the way that they thought best. They’ve lost a child who left them really angry last words. Hopefully more awareness & understanding & compassion come as a result of this….?

  23. Wait, DEP believes that I hate blacks and the poor?!!

    Oh, and I just remembered a MAJOR problem I had with one podcast. You discussed a mutual friend who was saying that his kids would never be shot by police (surprised me too coming from him, Christian), and then you both talked about institutional racism, and Jason talked about how most any progress has come through civil disobedience (civil rights, child labor, women voting). A couple of points, 1/ those who practiced civil disobedience (cd), knew that most likely they would be arrested due to their cd, and MLK told them that they would be because as it stood they were breaking a law, and not to resist arrest. We won’t go into the issue of comparing a arrest to “breaking into your home and raping your daughter”, or comparing any of the very noble issues listed above to someone selling loose cigs.
    I know that you both feel very strongly about this cause, and this case especially. However, a few points for you to consider:-
    1/ it doesn’t appear as though Garner was a “roll up” arrest, it looked more like they were dispatched as a team to work an area (maybe dealing with counterfeiters in the area?), a task force like that doesn’t go in after just one guy, unless he was into a whole lot more than just some loose cigarettes.
    2/ what do you want the officers to have done, just walk away when Eric said, “not today”? – just an observation, as you both pointed out, this man had more than likely been brushed along before, and on a regular basis (why, because he was breaking a law in NY). So since he was making a living by breaking a law, he was being addressed at least once a week, probably due to complaints about him being called in by other businesses (guess on my part). The only option I think you both have, is that they walk away from him (because if they had used any “less than lethal” means, it may have also resulted in his death – taser, bean bag, etc)
    3/ civil disobedience in any of the above examples never looked like the video I saw, where Eric was tossing the officers around like rag dolls. Now, I am not condoning the law, but I do know that there are times when the NYPD cracks down on folks who are doing what Eric did, and others who are vendors without permits, etc.
    4/ none of anything I have written above excuses Eric losing his life. Personally I think (and have stated) that the officer involved (since the commissioner of police stated that he violated dept rules) should be kicked off the force – it sends a message loud and clear that there are repercussions for using a hold that can cause damage and death. That being said, I am not sure I would have voted to indite(sp?) the officer, due to the video. How else would it go?
    5/ If Eric would have been at City Hall protesting the law, then I would see more of a case of civil disobedience, but just because you don’t like a law, doesn’t make it on the same level as the aforementioned issues.

    I should probably take my own advice above, but oh well.

    Still much love

  24. Your mom’s shameful, really.

    PS – See? Now you know what it’s like when someone like me tries to interact with you and the co-inhabitants of your echo chamber!

    YES lol

  26. Concerning this podcast, what about athiests who are starting their own church, that is church minus God?
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/atheist-church/
    In regards to Evolution (we need to define that as well) parts of it are truly scientific theory, and some is hypothesis. The main part that is hypothesis is macro evolution, micro evolution is actual theory, big bang is/was theory (science is now asking if there is a different occurance).
    I find it funny that you see the irony of those who actually are against Darwinism, are for economic Darwinism; while I have always found it interesting the versa. 😉
    There has been a problem for transgender folks for a long time (not just with church folks – there was a time when even in the gay community it existed). Most of that has been rectified (except in many churches); I know that some churches are okay when there is proof of different gender in the mind (there are tests that show this), but in my mind I believe that they should be okay no matter what.
    Transgender folks need a lot more compassion, and attention, from the entire society; it is so much different then anything we come from, even homosexual folks have a hard time getting it (check out blogs and papers concerning transgender issues). I hope that the suicide rates lower for all folks, but I’m not sure that it will happen with all of the issues that continue to be there for transgender people – people who have problems with transgender folks who are gay or straight (all transgender women go after men, right, or if you transition to woman, you must go all the way). No matter, there are a bunch of variations, and the gist of it is, they can do what they want/need.

  28. Wow – I am exhausted reading the above comments. I’ve never been accused of being Einstein like and maybe that is the reason these posts’ almost put me to sleep. In any event, I listen to DXP’s to escape from this world that has become so uptight about everything. We expect from this world what it cannot deliver – absolute accuracy. Sure it’s a grand idea and perhaps it would be nice but no one has attained it. Every human has hills and valleys of intelligence.
    So to my point, Please keep DXP’s real and continue with following your gut. I would tune right out if it became some quest for reporting facts. Your opinions are what make it real. Your opinions challenge us to do our own homework and to be open enough to examine ourselves where we could be wrong. I’m not afraid of being wrong but more importantly, I want to have a drink and make the heart a bit merry in this seriously manic world.( Yes I know I can’t write so don’t bother to comment on that )

  29. Thanks, Brian! We started out recording our conversations, and that’s just what we’re gonna keep on doing. I rarely brought notes to our normal conversations. 🙂

  30. Recommended reading after this podcast:

    The Year of Living Like Jesus- This was inspired by AJ Jacobs book, where Evangelical Pastor Ed Dobson spent a year living as Jesus would have; he holds to the Mosaic Law and Christ’s teachings, and even takes up some Catholic and Eastern Orthodox traditions. He then explains given his experiment, that he voted for Obama in ’08.

    As Nature Made Him, The Boy Who Was Raised as a Girl- True story of twin Canadian boys who were both circumcised however, the procedure was completely botched for one boy where his penis would no longer be functional. Given the belief about gender identity then, the docs told the parents that given his infancy they could reconstruct his genitalia to that of female and that if they raised him as a female, he would a happy and healthy little girl. Needless to say it was a f’kn nightmare for the entire family. The book pretty much solidifies that we are err…”predestined” to our gender identity.

  35. @Christian – finally caught up to the latest podcast.

    @Jason –

    I’m not quite sure why Neil degrasse Tyson seems to be your favourite whipping boy when it comes to “New Atheists” when men like Bill Maher, Richard Dawkins, and Christopher Hitchens seem to be much more dogmatic about denying the existence of God. Although I’ve never looked extensively into NtD’s commentary on religion.

    Anyway, in this episode, you spoke about paradigms but the problem is, fundamentalist christians want to conflate the two and want science teachers to teach both evolution and creation when they are clearly not the same subject. As an agnostic, I don’t have a problem with schools teaching creationism, I only have a problem when they are teaching it in science classes.

  36. @Jason –

    I’ve also noticed that you seem to argue by retreating to “let’s go to the best examples of position a and position b” when the reality before us doesn’t have any bearing on the reality of a given situation.

  37. Hey guys,

    Just wanted to say thanks for the recommendation of Joseph Campbell’s “Power of Myth”. I am about 50 pages in, and enjoying it very much.

    Thanks for the podcast. It makes my Monday morning commute something I look forward to.

    Peace,
    Daniel

  38. Formerly a Calvary Chapel missionary, now a guy who celebrates masturbation, “Milfs”, pornography, and sex out of wedlock. Why not?

    Oh, you mean I’m honest, unlike most Christian men? LOL

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